DonO: Don't give up the drugs just yet. Thanks for the explanations. Larry J
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/22/04 11:14AM >>> OK, I'm wrong on my pattern names, must be the pain killers. Everyone is right except me. I was thinking of the Troth style caddis, not the Goddard. On the Goddard, one does want the deer to spin, on the Troth it should not. I tie both styles, but it's been awhile since I've tied either. Sorry about the mix-up - just blame it on the drugs. I've seen the Goddard tied in both two steps of hair tying and one step. It just depends on how you control the hair. The advice on thread strength is correct. The stronger the thread, the tighter the compression, and the easier the fly is to tie. And yes, the hair, especially softer body hair, will cut with a strong thread like Fireline. I tried Fireline a long time ago, but the black dye came off on everything, so I quit using it. They may have changed that by now. I like to use dental floss, but that's just me. I've tried many superlines, and as long as the hair is not cut by the thread, it's a good way to go. It is tough on bobbins though, so I have hand-made bobbins that can handle up to 20# test. But the info on hair control is what I tie by, as I tie many stacked-hair flies, and many spun hair flies. Compression wraps and spinning wraps are totally different for outcome. If the volume of hair is greater than the base can accept, then the hair has no option but to start spinning around. If it meets an opposing color that is tied in on the bottom, you end up with an over-and-under colored fly, the proportions setting the joining plane, as with a mouse fly. If you want a base that can accept more hair without spinning, then carry the body material to underneath where you'll be attaching the wing. This will stop most spinning on a Troth style caddis. Deb also made a good point in pulling up, not down, and cutting down on the amount of hair. I find that if I pinch tight enough, it doesn't make too much difference. It's the direction of the thread sliding across the hair that tries to pull the hair with it. The amount of tension you bring to bear will also change how much the hair flares, so you'll need to make adjustments there if you're going to be leaving in the hair tips to create a profile. I changed to denser hair and compensated for using stronger threads. I've been experimenting with Troth-style caddis using speckled Coq D Leon instead of elk. I really like the results. Just need to get better so I can try them out. It takes a lot of barbs to make the wing, but the new Whiting capes have tons of feathers with very long barbs. This would not be commercially viable, though. Sorry for the pattern name mix-up, DonO
