Ben, If you are 'buying exploitation rights for profit' it implies that you are in the business of generating revenue for your filmmakers, which means offering licenses that the customers not only want but will be requiring; how can a librarian catalog a stream which they do not have a permanent copy of? Perhaps a library prefers to archive a digital file on their server rather than the DVD on a shelf. It is our business as distributors to the educational market to offer our customers these choices.
And digital formats change all the time. 3 years ago Flash was the universal standard for streaming. Now it is becoming HTML5 for ios compatibility. That is a recent change in digital format in this nascent market. There will be more to come. I liked Bob's analogy that a digital site license is not analogous to broadcast, but, as I originally suggested, a download. If Zeitgeist is selling films on iTunes, you are selling digital copies for the life of the file. Have a great weekend everybody. Best, Elizabeth Elizabeth Sheldon Vice President Kino Lorber, Inc. 333 W. 39th St., Suite 503 New York, NY 10018 (212) 629-6880 www.kinolorberedu.com On Mar 16, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Benjamin Crossley-Marra wrote: > Bob, > > The likelihood of schools desiring new digital formats after the stream has > been sold is still matter of conjecture at this point. They sure don't seem > to be too interested in Blu Ray. > > Due to the nature of (our contracts) at least I do feel obligated to set a > termination date on a digital file which can potentially be preserved > forever. > > I also don't particularly agree with the philosophy of just because there's > nothing in the contract that says you can't do it than it's all right. We are > buying exploitation rights for profit and those rights have an end date. Just > because a producer or entity may be receiving more money from a sale you're > making doesn't mean that they are OK with you doing it. If they are > comfortable with a distributor selling lifetime rights than there's no reason > not to have that in the contract. > > This is especially tenuous issue with major foreign sales agents whose films > are released theatrically here. We're talking about millions of dollars > floating around these films of which distributors are accountable for > reporting honestly and accurately. > > Ben > > Benjamin Crossley-Marra > Zeitgeist Films Ltd. > 247 Centre St, 2nd fl > New York, NY 10013 > P: 212-274-1989 > F: 212-274-1644 > http://www.zeitgeistfilms.com > > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Bob Norris wrote: > >> I'm going to have to disagree. Selling streaming rights for the life of the >> digital file to a university is not comparable to a broadcast sale in >> perpetuity. >> >> In the former case you are selling to a single entity. Using Facets as an >> example, the school could pay $20 for in classroom face to face use of a >> DVD. But if they want to stream the school pays $500. So the producer is the >> beneficiary of a higher royalty. And if Facet's license expires and a new >> distributor picks up the title they can sell a new digital format to that >> school. (Believe me, formats will change.) Plus they can sell to all the >> other schools that never purchased the title. >> >> If a distributor sold broadcast rights in perpetuity that would lock up the >> whole broadcast market in that territory forever. That would not be right. >> The difference is you are selling a right, not a thing. >> >> iTunes does not place a time limitation on my music downloads of major >> recording artists. I don't think video distributors are required to set an >> arbitrary termination date on the use of a particular digital file either. >> Of course if the producer's agreement prohibits lifetime sales then Film >> Ideas would not grant them. >> >> Respectfully, >> Bob >> >> Robert A. Norris >> Managing Director >> Film Ideas, Inc. >> Phone: (847) 419-0255 >> Email: b...@filmideas.com >> Web: www.filmideas.com >> >> On Mar 16, 2012, at 2:54 PM, videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu wrote: >> >>> 1. Re: Facets launches EDU site with streaming rights >>> (Jessica Rosner) >>> >>> From: Jessica Rosner <jessicapros...@gmail.com> >>> Date: March 16, 2012 2:52:35 PM CDT >>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu >>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] Facets launches EDU site with streaming rights >>> Reply-To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu >>> >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> I know we have disagreed on this and I have run this by many companies >>> that distribute foreign film in particular and all I have spoken do >>> not believe their contracts permit the sale of lifetime streaming if >>> they for instance have the right to sell downloads to individuals for >>> the fixed period on the contract. I believe the closer comparison is >>> to a TV sale. Most contracts don't permit a distributor to make a sale >>> for a cable, Internet or other broadcast form to that would permit the >>> companies broadcast or download the film forever. The rights are >>> limited by the term of the contract. More specifically I have directly >>> asked several European companies about lifetime streaming rights and >>> they refused and some of these are the same companies Kino/Lorber has >>> films from. I feel very strongly that if these rights were allowed >>> they should be explicitly included in a contract because you are not >>> selling a physical item like a print or a VHS but rights that can >>> literally never expire in a format that can be used forever. >>> >>> Since again I have been explicitly told by several major overseas >>> rights holders that their contract do not include this I think it >>> would be unfair to have institutions in the middle. Frankly there have >>> in fact been a number of cases in which >>> after a contract expired a rights holder told an institution that a >>> distributor had no rights to sell a particular item with lifetime PPR >>> and they insisted that showings be cancelled and the film never shown. >>> It is not common because most large overseas companies have little >>> knowledge or interest in such things but again this should be between >>> distributors and rights holders. Obviously if you believe your >>> contracts cover this you should make sure the rights holders are >>> informed and agree to this. >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Elizabeth Sheldon >>> <elizab...@kinolorber.com> wrote: >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> As a film distribution company who offers DSL with streaming rights 'for >>>> the life of the digital file,' we consider a DSL analogous to a download >>>> in the consumer market. If one of our customers wants to purchase a DVD >>>> with or without PPR, great; if they would prefer the digital file with a >>>> streaming license, we will supply it. We think that a DSL is a premium >>>> license and this is reflected in our pricing, which is very close to >>>> Facets pricing. >>>> >>>> Just as when we sell a DVD with PPR to a school, when our original >>>> agreement expires with the filmmaker, we do not ask our librarian >>>> customers to return the DVDs because the PPR license has not expired. The >>>> rights we sell during the term continue beyond the term of our original >>>> license with a filmmaker. If in our agreements there is specific language >>>> that prohibits us from selling either PPR or DSL, it is not available from >>>> our site: www.kinolorberedu.com. >>>> >>>> However, what we do frown upon is encoding from a DVD without purchasing >>>> the DSL. Now that irritates me. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> Elizabeth Sheldon >>>> Vice President >>>> Kino Lorber, Inc. >>>> 333 W. 39th St., Suite 503 >>>> New York, NY 10018 >>>> (212) 629-6880 >>>> >>>> www.kinolorberedu.com >>>> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and >> distributors. > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, > preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective > working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > distributors. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
