These are my sentiments too on the whole.
Most of Valdambrini's continuo exercises just consist of matching up
alfabeto chords with the bass note. There are just a small number which
are written in tablature. I have scanned and put a sample of these on my
page at
www.earlyguitar.ning.com if anyone wants to look at them.
Both Corbetta and Foscarini also include tables matching up alfabeto chords
but they include some examples in tablature. Those of Corbetta do not
always
reproduce the bass line - for example in the first example on p.73 in his
1643 book the 4-3 suspension is in the bass part. This is perfectly
acceptable - how else could he have arranged it. Most of these excercises
don't use higher positions on the fingerboard.
As far as the alfabeto song books are concerned the little information we
have does seem to indicate that the guitar was not intended to reproduce the
bass line etc. but just strummed the basic chords. It is an anachronism to
do anything much more elaborate than that if what you are trying to is to
re-create the ambience in which they were first performed. The original
idea was for the singer to accompany themselves, something which few people
do today.
I am very fond of quoting what these people say so here are the comments of
Marini and Milanuzzi.
Marini - Note that in some places you will find that the alfabeto does not
fit with the bass line. This is because it is the wish of the author to
accompany the voice in as many ways as possible rather than while by paying
heed to the requirements of one instrument, he is constrained by those of
the other, since the guitar lacks many proper consonances.
Milanuzzi - Note that so as to create a different effect from that of the
chitarrone or keyboard when accompanying these little arias with the
guitar, in many places I have given the guitar a different chord from that
assigned to the bass line intended for other instruments, all of which are
intended to make the arias as beautiful as possible.
Rather later there were obviously attempts at providing more elaborate
accompaniments but strumming is still an option.
I don't think the continuo exercices have any bearing on how the solo music
should be played. As far as using a different method of stringing is
concerned both Sanz and Carre mention this as an option. It makes
perfectly good sense to do that. After all there were two different sizes
of theorbo - for solo music and accompanying and all manner of experiments
with stringing and tuning of other plucked string instruments. And
inventories of composer's assets also indicate that they owned a large
number of instruments.
I cannot understand why a monolithic approach should be adopted towards the
5-course guitar. Players are not entirely consistent and predictable in
what they do. We can get some ideas from what they say about what is
appropriate but then it is down to us.
Monica
Valdambribi - since he requires fully re-entrant for his solo pieces
but suggests bourdons for BC. Assuming he had (at least) two
instruments strung accordingly, did he never play a solo with the BC
guitar when he couldn't bother (or find time) to change instruments?
Certainly his facility with partial strumming would have allowed him to
avoid some problems tho' he would need to have octaves on the fourth
and fifth as well as a bourdon on his BC guitar to play his frequently
occuring solo campanellas.
All mere speculation of course but, I suggest, the sort of idiomatic
flexibility which may have been employed by individual players.
But to return to the main thrust: yes we ought to play the full
alfabeto chord unless there are clear problems (eg technical
feasibility). I recall remarking some time ago that I view early guitar
music as being closer to unaccompanied violin works than pieces for
lute: generally we have single note melodies/decorated passages
punctuated by chords rather than part writing.
M.
M
--- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 18:09
Well ....I am not sure who is having the cake and who is eating it
here.
Lex said
The first attempts
of Foscarini and Corbetta from around 1640, to apply the figures and
voice-leading of basso continuo on the guitar, give a different
picture. But Valdambrini's attempts around the same time give
exactly
the same picture but he evidently used the re-entrant tuning.
What you see is not always what you get. Nor is the cake.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Monica Hall" <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
>
>
> Indeed - he is also having his cake and eating it........
>
> M
> --- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence
> To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[6]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 14:03
>
> A P.S.
> Valdambrini's second book also includes some instructions on
> accompanying a
> bass line. There are a small number of places in these (on p.30)
where
> he
> has written out chords in tablature and these would reproduce the
bass
> line
> as written if there were bourdons - but not if the re-entrant
tuning
> was
> used.
> There is a certain amount of "virtual" or "visual" harmony in all
these
> things. Accompanying a bass line is about the art of the
> possible. The
> exercises illustrate what you can actually play but are not
intended to
> be
> taken literally.
> Alternatively perhaps Valdambrini use a different method of
stringing
> when
> accompanying.
> Monica
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1][8]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "Monica Hall" <[2][9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[3][10]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:09 AM
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence
> >
> >
> >
> > Monica writes: 'Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome
seven
> > years after Landi died (1646). He not only gives instructions
for
> > re-entrant tuning but clearly
> > states that the instrument has no basses.' Also of course she
> might
> > have added that he very clearly indicates octaves in the
> Avvertimenti
> > (both in Italian AND French tablature) thus once again
confirming
> fully
> > re-entrant for his music.
> >
> > As a further aside, I like V's penchant for carefully
controlled
> > strumming (ie not 'thrashing') - clearly he had an advanced
> technique
> > allowing him to exclude certain courses at will(partial
> > strumming). Many examples such as second book: bottom of page
29 in
> the
> > variatione on a ciaccona. I've previously suggested this was a
well
> > established practice by 1646 - at least for some if not for
Colonna
> and
> > Sanseverino.
> > M.
> > --- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall
<[4][11]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > From: Monica Hall <[5][12]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Stefano Landi
> > To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <[6][13]eisenha...@planet.nl>
> > Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[7][14]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Date: Monday, 15 November, 2010, 8:32
> >
> > > We don't know which tuning predominated in the circles
around
> > Landi,
> > > for example.
> > Well - we have some ideas. One of his contemporaries in Rome
was
> > Kapsberger, and it was from Kapsberger that Mersenne obtained
his
> > information about how the guitar was strung - i.e. with a fully
> > re-entrant
> > tuning. Kapsberger published two books of guitar music now
lost.
> > Valdambrini's first book was printed in Rome seven years after
> Landi
> > died
> > (1646). He not only gives instructions for re-entrant tuning
but
> > clearly
> > states that the instrument has no basses.
> > Kircher gives the re-entrant tuning in Musurgia Universalis
printed
> in
> > Rome
> > 1650.
> > And of course rather later Sanz also says that guitarists in
Rome
> used
> > the
> > re-entrant tuning.
> > Just straws in the wind..............
> > From our XXIc position it is difficult to know exactly who
> > > used what tuning, or which composer was exposed to one way
of
> > tuning or
> > > the other. If one way of stringing is very usual among your
> friends
> > or
> > > in your town there would be no reason to say anything about
it.
> > Therein lies the problem. If none of us can be certain a
position
> of
> > relativity is inevitable. The relativity is ours rather than
> theirs.
> > > It supposes that in the 17th century 'they' had a sort of
> > relativism,
> > > with respect to the tuning and theoretical issues. The
first
> > attempts
> > > of Focarini and Corbetta from around 1640, to apply the
figures
> and
> > > voice-leading of basso continuo on the guitar, give a
different
> > > picture.
> > In what way? Even if this was so in what way is it relevant
to
> what
> > players did earlier?
> > Monica
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > >
[1][8][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1.
[9][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
>
[17]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 2.
[18]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 3.
[19]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 4.
[20]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 5.
[21]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 6.
[22]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eisenha...@planet.nl
> 7.
[23]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 8. [24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 9. [25]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1.
http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
5. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
6.
http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
7. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
8.
http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
9. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
10. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
12. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
13. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eisenha...@planet.nl
14. http://de.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
18. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
19. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
20. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
21. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
22. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eisenha...@planet.nl
23. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
25. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
