On 08/02/2011 10:09, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Dear Stuart,
You write
'what do you mean by "elaborate treble dominated style"? Is it this: a
predominantly melodic line interspersed with occasional chords? Which
composers are you thinking of?'
I don't know what others are thinking of, but I mentioned that the
similarity between much (especially Italian) guitar writing and that
for unaccompanied violin by such as Schmelzer, Biber, Matteis had
struck me some years ago. Almost all guitar composer exhibit this in
pieces from time to time but some particular ones which I recall being
examplars of the fashion were: Pellegrini(1650), Carbonchi(1640),
Pesori(1648), Coriandoli(1670), Valdambrini (1646/7), Bottazzari
(1663), Granata (various)....... A good example of the practice in
operation and a interesting perspective on this style is also shed by
those few pieces which actually do have an independent bass line as
well as guitar tablature (eg Granata Op 5 of 1674 for violin, bass
violin and guitar) - the guitar 'bass' is often skeletal at best and
often non-existant whereas the guitar does double most of the
independent upper melodic line.
Well, looking at Granata's Novi Capricci Armonic Musicali: the first
few pieces have a guitar part on the left hand side (in tab) and a
score for violin and a ('viola'=bass?) part on the right. If it's
assumed that the guitar is playing along with the bass line (and
violin), nevertheless the guitar parts stand as pieces in their own
right with basic, sketchy, two-part writing (plus chords here and
there). There are passages which are just the melodic line but still
most of the writing is rudimentary two-part....but like much writing
for guitar before or since.
Stuart
Of course if anyone really wanted to push the matter and insist that a
proper through bass was always present, I suppose it might be possible
to construct a bass line (of sorts) from the lowest notes (depending on
stringing!) of the strummed chords......
Martyn
--- On Mon, 7/2/11, Stuart Walsh [1]<s.wa...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh [2]<s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
To: "Monica Hall" [3]<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" [4]<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Monday, 7 February, 2011, 22:22
On 07/02/2011 17:21, Monica Hall wrote:
> This was my summary. It caused outrage in some quarters but I still
stand by most of it.
>
> 1. Both the conventional and re-entrant tunings were considered
appropriate for strummed music and choice of one or the other was a
matter of practical convenience.
> 2. The development of an elaborate treble dominated style after
1640 led to a preference for re-entrant stringing.
Monica, what do you mean by "elaborate treble dominated style"? Is it
this: a predominantly melodic line interspersed with occasional chords?
Which composers are you thinking of?
The small amount of fancier music for the English guitar/guittar in the
18th century actually, literally looks like this - melodic lines -
single melodic lines and then occasional chords. But five-course guitar
music doesn't look like this at all. It looks like there's some kind of
bass and treble - it looks like, at least, two part music.
If the guitar is playing in this "elaborate treble dominated style" (as
I am interpreting you as claiming) it would have to be in a re-entrant
stringing, wouldn't it? It couldn't lead to a preference for it?
> 3. Perhaps as early as the 1650s Corbetta used bourdon on the
fourth course.
> 4. This became the preferred method of stringing in France,
England and the Low Countries and possibly also in Italy and Spain
during the last quarter of the seventeenth and first quarter of the
eighteenth centuries.
> 5. Developments in the way strings were made lead to regular use
of octaves on both fourth and fifth courses and eventually to a
6-course instrument.
But you say in 1. (above) - the 'conventional' tuning? So, by that, you
don't mean octaves on fourth and fifth? You mean AA and DD?
Stuart
> 6. Different methods of stringing were probably used for solo
music and realizing a bass line.
> 7. The evidence for octave stringing on the third course is
ambiguous. Such a method of stringing would only be suitable for
strummed music.
>
> Do I hear howls of rage in the distance?
>
> Monica
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
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>
--
References
1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
4. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
