On 08/02/2011 10:09, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Dear Stuart,
You write 'what do you mean by "elaborate treble dominated style"? Is it this: a predominantly melodic line interspersed with occasional chords? Which composers are you thinking of?' I don't know what others are thinking of, but I mentioned that the similarity between much (especially Italian) guitar writing and that for unaccompanied violin by such as Schmelzer, Biber, Matteis had struck me some years ago. Almost all guitar composer exhibit this in pieces from time to time but some particular ones which I recall being examplars of the fashion were: Pellegrini(1650), Carbonchi(1640), Pesori(1648), Coriandoli(1670), Valdambrini (1646/7), Bottazzari (1663), Granata (various)....... A good example of the practice in operation and a interesting perspective on this style is also shed by those few pieces which actually do have an independent bass line as well as guitar tablature (eg Granata Op 5 of 1674 for violin, bass violin and guitar) - the guitar 'bass' is often skeletal at best and often non-existant whereas the guitar does double most of the independent upper melodic line. Well, looking at Granata's Novi Capricci Armonic Musicali: the first few pieces have a guitar part on the left hand side (in tab) and a score for violin and a ('viola'=bass?) part on the right. If it's assumed that the guitar is playing along with the bass line (and violin), nevertheless the guitar parts stand as pieces in their own right with basic, sketchy, two-part writing (plus chords here and there). There are passages which are just the melodic line but still most of the writing is rudimentary two-part....but like much writing for guitar before or since. Stuart Of course if anyone really wanted to push the matter and insist that a proper through bass was always present, I suppose it might be possible to construct a bass line (of sorts) from the lowest notes (depending on stringing!) of the strummed chords...... Martyn --- On Mon, 7/2/11, Stuart Walsh [1]<s.wa...@ntlworld.com> wrote: From: Stuart Walsh [2]<s.wa...@ntlworld.com> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again To: "Monica Hall" [3]<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Cc: "Vihuelalist" [4]<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Monday, 7 February, 2011, 22:22 On 07/02/2011 17:21, Monica Hall wrote: > This was my summary. It caused outrage in some quarters but I still stand by most of it. > > 1. Both the conventional and re-entrant tunings were considered appropriate for strummed music and choice of one or the other was a matter of practical convenience. > 2. The development of an elaborate treble dominated style after 1640 led to a preference for re-entrant stringing. Monica, what do you mean by "elaborate treble dominated style"? Is it this: a predominantly melodic line interspersed with occasional chords? Which composers are you thinking of? The small amount of fancier music for the English guitar/guittar in the 18th century actually, literally looks like this - melodic lines - single melodic lines and then occasional chords. But five-course guitar music doesn't look like this at all. It looks like there's some kind of bass and treble - it looks like, at least, two part music. If the guitar is playing in this "elaborate treble dominated style" (as I am interpreting you as claiming) it would have to be in a re-entrant stringing, wouldn't it? It couldn't lead to a preference for it? > 3. Perhaps as early as the 1650s Corbetta used bourdon on the fourth course. > 4. This became the preferred method of stringing in France, England and the Low Countries and possibly also in Italy and Spain during the last quarter of the seventeenth and first quarter of the eighteenth centuries. > 5. Developments in the way strings were made lead to regular use of octaves on both fourth and fifth courses and eventually to a 6-course instrument. But you say in 1. (above) - the 'conventional' tuning? So, by that, you don't mean octaves on fourth and fifth? You mean AA and DD? Stuart > 6. Different methods of stringing were probably used for solo music and realizing a bass line. > 7. The evidence for octave stringing on the third course is ambiguous. Such a method of stringing would only be suitable for strummed music. > > Do I hear howls of rage in the distance? > > Monica > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html