Dear Lex, As you say it does all seem a bit endless......
But might I suggest one reason (amongst others) why it may seem so:
only yesterday I gave a direct quote from Caccini's own, very
influential, book which very clearly has Caccini saying the chitarrone
is the most suitable instrument of any to accompany the voice. Since
you're cropping messages others may miss what Caccini himself had to
say, so here is that earlier message again. I say others since I've
seen messages saying what about theorbos in a nominal G as well as
those in A.......
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--------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Lex,
Caccini can speak for himself: 'the chitarrone is better suited to
accompany the voice, especially the tenor, than any other
instrument'.(G. Caccini, Le Nuove Musiche (Florence, 1602), sig. C2V
'Ai Lettori ... del Chitarrone ... essendo questo strumento piu atto
ad accompagnare la voce, e particolarmente quella del Tenore, che
qualunque altro.')
Further, Piccinini(1623) tells us Caccini used a chitarrone to
accompany himself before 1594.
The chitarrone did not, of course, at first have numerous long extended
basses. However it was tuned in a nominal A or G so, as previously
pointed out, the same problem would arise even if tuned in G with a
sung d and f# in the bass.
I suspect Striggio was using the term lute in a generic sense: it is
certainly not 'wrong' to use any form of lute from around this time to
perform his songs. See Rob Dowland Var of lute lessons for example and
Ms 704 Bib Con Brussels which contains intabulated settings of songs
by Caccini and his contemporaries.
regards
Martyn
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------------------------------------------------------
Bob Spencer's article in Early Music (kindly made available by David
Van Edwards on his website) is still the most compact summary on these
instruments.
regards to all (croppers or not)
Martyn
--- On Mon, 19/12/11, Lex Eisenhardt <eisenha...@planet.nl> wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt <eisenha...@planet.nl>
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Caccini's instrument
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Stewart McCoy"
<lu...@tiscali.co.uk>, "Vihuela List" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Monday, 19 December, 2011, 8:28
Dear Stewart,
We all seem to think that the printed bass line is what should be
played ideally. And probably it was played like it is on the keyboard
(which Caccini was master of). In practice (on his beloved theorbo?)
adaptations would have to be made regarding octaves, and, as an
exception, the bass may have crossed the tenor. I just don't think we
can say that the music was written (notated) with the theorbo in mind,
although in the end even that could be merely a semantic discussion. I
am aware that there was music 'in theory' and music 'in practice'.
This endless thread started with Martyn's question whether raising the
bass an octave in a theorbo realization differs substantially from
doing the same sort of thing on the guitar. Both solutions are a
practical in the first place. But on the guitar (in alfabeto) you don't
really raise basses to other octaves, as 'parts' are mixed up all the
time. What would be an exception on a bass instrument (theorbo) is
ubiquitous in guitar accompaniment. That seems an essential difference.
best, Lex
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart McCoy"
<[1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>
To: "Vihuela List" <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 12:55 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Caccini's instrument
> Dear Lex,
>
> One hesitates to mention it without 101 caveats, but what about a
> theorbo in G? Evidence for such an instrument is pretty thin on the
> ground (pace Praetorius), but at least some of Caccini's songs are in
> flattish keys which would favour a theorbo in G.
>
> I have not played any Caccini for a long time and cannot remember,
but
> could the missing notes be provided by re-tuning the relevant string
-
> e.g. have F# at the expense of F natural - or are there songs where
you
> need both?
>
> The other possibility is that Caccini did not have only the theorbo
in
> mind, but wrote bass parts for all instruments, expecting the player
to
> adapt what he saw for his own particular instrument. Lutes were more
> common than theorboes, and may have been used by at least some people
> buying Caccini's book. The "missing" chromatic notes would have been
> available as stopped notes on the lute.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Stewart.
>
--
References
1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lu...@tiscali.co.uk
2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
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