I should clarify that the straight-to-A transcriptions work best for me in
music that is most workable in that tuning. I find it pretty satisfactory
for de Visee, Guerau, etc. Ironically, the one perhaps most poorly served
by non-reentrant notation, Sanz, is perhaps the most commonly abused by it.
I suppose we should blame Segovia.
I suppose the issue is that actual-pitch transcriptions of music written
to reentrant tuning are of potential use to characters like Respighi or
academics who don't play the instruments in question, but of little use to
those who play...and it seems to me that characters like Respighi are
relatively rare. ...And those who play the instruments in question almost
universally take the time to learn how to use the tablature, which is
often more clear regarding reentrant tunings. So, I guess there is an
academic purpose to such transcriptions, but the audience to benefit most
is very limited, and those transcriptions are of limited use in
performance.
I seem to recall that Strizich actually recommended putting a stock b
string on the modern guitar where the A used to be and tuning that string
to a. Frankly, my modern guitars get more regular use in post-reentrant
music, and dedicating any instrument to such a scheme isn't practical for
me.
Staff notation is really a rather linear scheme. It gets too messy in
trying to represent music where pitch and the sequence of pitches is more
ambiguous than accommodated by strictly linear, like reentrant tuning or
octave strings. ...But the two of you chatting with me here know all this
as well as anybody.
Best,
Eugene
________________________________________
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of
Monica Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:01 AM
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar?
First of all - don't you think that some academics at least ought to be
interested in the 5-course guitar repertoire? Frankly I think they
should
be and indeed some of them are. After all it has some bearing on other
aspects of 17th century music e.g. music for lute and keyboard and
continuo
playing. I don't think a ghetto mentality does us any favours.
Secondly - I think that it is unhelpful and misleading to transcribe
5-course guitar music as if the 4th and 5th courses were always in the
lower
octave. It gives completely the wrong idea about how the music really
sounds and is one reason why even people who play the 5-course guitar
don't
appreciate the significance of re-entrant tunings and the re-entrant
effect.
Thirdly - when I did my dissertation on Murcia I did my transcriptions
just
as you suggest and two of my examiners - both eminent professors of music
just couldn't get their heads around the idea that a lot of the notes
really
sounded an octave higher. Their re-action was "The music is rubbish isn't
it?" Fortunately the third examiner was a guitarist...
I have been doing a lot of transcriptions for a project recently and what
I
find helpful is to use different shaped note heads for notes on the 4th
and
5th courses or do them a different colour when it is necessary to
highlight
them. Strizich may not have had that option but I still think his
original transcription is very useful.
As ever
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "EugeneBraig" <brai...@osu.edu>
Cc: "Vihuela Dmth" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar?
Dear Eugene,
I also find Strizich more complicated than necessary and really only
useful for academics interested in the period guitar who don't actually
play the instrument - are there any?
And I agree with what you're saying below: ie to transcribe the
tablature into staff notation by pretending that the 4th and 5th
courses have both strings at the lower octave. This way there's much
less room for ambiguity and the music will sound different depending on
which particular tuning arrangement an individual player chooses to
employ - in fact, a sort of staff notation tablature....
regards,
Martyn
--- On Wed, 21/11/12, Braig, Eugene <brai...@osu.edu> wrote:
From: Braig, Eugene <brai...@osu.edu>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar?
To: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Wednesday, 21 November, 2012, 21:18
Indeed. I'm in the day job office and can't refer directly, but I seem
to remember spots/chords where it's not clear to which course/string
the symbol applied. Feel free to correct me if this is not the case.
Strizich is a somewhat useful...but also a somewhat odd effort.
Personally, I feel de Visee is one of those few 5-course characters who
loses almost nothing in use of the low A throughout. If transcribing
de Visee to modern notation, I'd almost rather assume a typical modern
instrument, with notes along the fifth notated as though they are along
an A, as Grimes did in his guitar transcriptions for good ol' Mel Bay,
de Visee included.
Best,
Eugene
-----Original Message-----
From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Monica Hall
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 3:39 PM
To: Braig, Eugene
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar?
Well - Strizich does indicate which course the notes are on with a
little figure in a circle below the stave but you need a magnifying
glass to read them. e.g. in the first bar the c is played on the 5th
course and the a on
the 3rd. He also puts in zeros to indicate open courses e.g. on line
3 in
the third bar the zeros over the a and b natural indicate that they are
played on the open 5th and 2nd courses.
It does highlight how difficult it is to transcribe baroque guitar
music coherantly.
Monica
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Braig, Eugene" <[3]brai...@osu.edu>
To: "Vihuelalist" <[4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:41 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar?
>A little late to this chat, but I find the Strizich transcription a
bit
>unwieldy in notating notes along the reentrant a at pitch. It's just
hard
>to know whether notes in the relevant range belong along the a, g, or
b
>string.
>
> Best,
> Eugene
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
> Behalf Of Monica Hall
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:33 PM
> To: [7]ar...@student.matnat.uio.no
> Cc: Vihuelalist
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar?
>
> A transcription of it is also included in Robert Strizich's edition
of De
> Visee's complete works published by Heugel in1969.
>
> Monica
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[8]ar...@student.matnat.uio.no>
> To: "Monica Hall" <[9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Cc: "Arto Wikla" <[10]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>; "Vihuelalist"
> <[11]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the
guitar?
>
>
>> It has also been recorded by Rafael Andia. But I don't really like
the
>> recording...
>>
>> mvh
>> Are
>>
>>> Dear Arto
>>>
>>> There is a guitar version of this chaconne - in D minor - in the
huge
>>> manuscript F.Pn Res. F. 844. It is on p.237.
>>>
>>> Someone - Stuart I think - pointed out that you can download an
image of
>>> the
>>> whole of this ms. from the Bib. Nat. site.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Monica
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arto Wikla" <[12]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
>>> To: "Vihuelalist" <[13]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 9:22 PM
>>> Subject: [VIHUELA] de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear "flat back" lutenists,
>>>>
>>>> My try on de Visee's Chaconne in A minor is - as I told - is in
>>>>
>>>>> [14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYU&feature=youtu.be
>>>>> [15]http://vimeo.com/53172045
>>>>
>>>> As I said, there is the original(?) theorbo version of this
d-minor
>>>> lute
>>>> version, but I have a strong memory image that there is also a
version
>>>> to the 5 course guitar of this Chaconne. Is it there? Monica?
Other
>>>> specialists?
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>>
>>>> Arto
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>> [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
References
1.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brai...@osu.edu
4.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
5.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
6.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
7.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ar...@student.matnat.uio.no
8.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ar...@student.matnat.uio.no
9. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
10. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
11.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
13.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
14. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYU&feature=youtu.be
15. http://vimeo.com/53172045
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
