> Bram

What do you think about this?


On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:33 PM, tyru <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 10:08 PM, tyru <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Nikolay,
>>
>> Thanks for lots of follow-up examples :)
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Nikolay Aleksandrovich Pavlov
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Since that thread is over I would reply here (did not reply previously
>>> because I did not realize that json and channel features are
>>> connected)
>>
>> BTW, I didn't understand why json and channel features are connected.
>> I only talked about JSON feature.
>>
>>>
>>>> The question is what to do with items that can't be converted to JSON.
>>>> I have been in doubt, whether to silently drop them or give an error.
>>>>
>>>> Although a missing item in an array is not according to the JSON
>>>> standard, it is very useful in practice:
>>>>
>>>> [1,,,,8]
>>>>
>>>> The missing items would be "undefined" in JavaScript.  In Vim they are
>>>> v:none.  Proper JSON would be:
>>>>
>>>> [1,null,null,null,8]
>>>>
>>>> That's more than twice as long.  Gets worse when there are more missing
>>>> items, up to five times as long.
>>>
>>> 1. Arrays like `[1, null, null, null, 8]` are very rarely used when
>>> communicating. So this is almost never “twice as long”. Especially
>>> with the planned subfeatures of the channel feature.
>>> 2. `[1,,,,8]` with the current parser is `[1, v:none, v:none, v:none,
>>> 8]`. If people are testing for null values using `if {val} is v:null`
>>> the fact that it can be written like this is absolutely useless. If
>>> people are using `if {val}` this can be as well written as
>>> `[1,0,0,0,8]`.
>>> 3. I have no problems in counting three null values, but commas are
>>> harder to count and they are usually visually skipped because of
>>> having very low importance.
>>> 4. Computer has no problems with either variants, performance impact
>>> is negligible.
>>> 5. Handling v:none in VimL in case somebody cares code adds *far* more
>>> ticks then parsing `null` in C code.
>>> 6. It is easy to miss v:none in cases like
>>>
>>>         [
>>>             "1"
>>>             , "2"
>>>             , "3",
>>>             , "4"
>>>         ]
>>
>> This is very likely probable case!
>> The following JSON string leaves v:none at the end
>> if it is parsed by current jsondecode().
>>
>> [
>>     "1",
>>     "2",
>>     "3",
>>     "4",
>> ]
>>
>>> 7. In msgpack the whole array is six bytes. JSON is more then three
>>> times as long. Non-JSON you propose is still 1⅓ longer. For IPC it is
>>> better. For user YAML is more readable (especially when one needs
>>> multi-line strings), and almost always can be made less verbose then
>>> JSON.
>>> 8. In javascript `[1,,,,8]` is `[1,undefined,undefined,undefined,8]`,
>>> not `[1,null,null,null,8]`.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I propose to allow this extension to JSON.  However, it should not be
>>>> created accidentally, only when intentionally using v:none as an item.
>>>
>>> If documentation states that channel accepts JSON, it should accept
>>> JSON and not something else. I am not much fond of idea of
>>> jsondecode() extensions, but do not create *yet another* standard in
>>> interprocess communications, this action is worse then creating yet
>>> another non-strict parser.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, we should probably give an error when using a function, instead of
>>>> producing JSON that's not according to the standard.
>>>
>>> 2016-02-03 16:28 GMT+03:00 tyru <[email protected]>:
>>>> Dear Bram and Vimmers,
>>>>
>>>> I have read the below thread.
>>>>
>>>> [vim] jsonencode() does not work correctly with function references (#579)
>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/vim_dev/9rf5_YmPn28/qZKB3rKvCAAJ
>>>>
>>>> But, I couldn't understand why Vim has had to add v:none variable.
>>>>
>>>>> Although a missing item in an array is not according to the JSON
>>>>> standard, it is very useful in practice:
>>>> I don't think so.
>>>> If v:none variable has been added because *only* it is useful,
>>>> it should not be.
>>>> I don't think It should be added even breaking the JSON standard.
>>>>
>>>> Because, v:none and v:null is very similar.
>>>> If a user mistake v:none for v:null,
>>>> an invalid JSON (for strict JSON parser) will be generated!
>>>
>>> I can also confirm that I need to constantly remind myself what
>>> exactly I need to use.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>     jsonencode([1,v:none,v:none,4])
>>>>
>>>> "undefined" and "null" in JavaScript is totally a bad part.
>>>> Please don't follow that.
>>>
>>> It would be better if you have shown (pointed to an article) what is
>>> so bad here.
>>
>> "undefined" and "null" are totally different things.
>> So "undefined === null" returns true, of course.
>
> oh sorry.
> of course "undefined === null" returns false :)
>
>> But both values mean often an absense of a value.
>> They are very confusing.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> tyru
>>>>
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>>>
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