Hi Manuel 2016-08-09 20:06 GMT+09:00 manuelschiller.pimail via vim_dev < [email protected]>:
> Dear Kazunobu, > If you don't mind, please consider using friendlier 'Hi' instead of 'Dear.' It's OK to me even if you omit greeting itself. > On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 12:03:47 UTC+2, Kazunobu Kuriyama wrote: > > Hi Manual, > I'm sorry about my writing your name wrongly. > > > [...] > > Well, the trouble is that I think you likely are qualified to review > that patch, despite me being a newcomer who cannot really tell because I > don't know who does what, and who is experienced in which field. But > somehow, we seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot (which may be my > fault, and if it is, I'm sorry), or you seem to feel really strongly that > the code should only deal with true monospaced fonts. That's a bit of a > pity because I think we're both trying to make vim a little bit better > (even if it's in a frightfully limited way in my case). By the way, your > vacation remark I find a bit insulting in this context. > > > > > > Apologies to you for that. > > > No need, I rather speak up when something is getting beyond my confort > zone, but before I actually feel seriously insulted. And I guess I'm at the > very least sharing the blame for the escalation... :) Sorry for that again, > and for the noise! > > > > > My assertion is that people using these programming fonts will be > happy to see these ligatures assemble/disassemble as they edit across them. > > > > > > > > > > Once people view ligatures on Vim, they will ask us more for the > purpose of editing them in a way each individual thinks better... > > > > > > > > > Yep, that's the sign of people doing a good job - people ask for more. > :) In a sense, that's what I'm doing as well (I hope you see that as a > compliment!). > > > > > > > > Seriously, I don't mean to aggravate you or anybody else, or cloud your > vacation in any way. Maybe we postpone this until you're back from > vacation, and we've both had some time to think it over? > > > > > > That sounds good...but considering the fact that the ligature patch now > looks gaining momentum for the first time in two years (as Bram shows an > interest in it), I think your keeping working on it while I'm off could > lead to a good, even better and faster, result. So I'd like to say to you, > "Keep it up! Over my dead body!", though it's all up to you :) > > > > Okay, fair enough. :) It might take some time though, since I'll be moving > to a different country to start a new job in the coming month. > I see. You are busy for a while. Actually, that gives me its own convenience. It gives me some time to make myself get accustomed to ligature fonts and their usage on Vim. Nothing wrong. > What direction would you like to see things heading? I'll most likely be > no good at finding the ultimate patch that gets everything right because > I'm not enough of an expert in the font rendering library field - it only > dawned on me what was going wrong in that code recently. > > If you'd want the ultimate ligature-clean solution, I anticipate one would > need to revamp much of the gtk display code to update the right bits of the > screen and keep the relation between glyph and characters, especially for > the cursor drawing routines, so the right bit gets redrawn. That's a tall > order, and I feel my C and gtk/pango skills are a bit too much in the range > from non-existant to rusty for that. (My C++ is good, but that doesn't help > here. ;) Moreovwe, we may want to use a patch along the lines I suggested > to gain a bit of experience to learn about what's important in this > business before we try and design the patch that solves all ligature > issues... It may involve bug reports, and users asking for features, but > that's very good feedback once we understand where the problem is, guiding > us toward a better solution. > If you don't have any clear direction on that, how about rethinking all the issues that have been raised in this thread so far. You might find some of them needed to be fixed or might get a better idea to address them. Doing that would tell us (hints of) what we need to know and what we have to do. > In the meantime, I may be able to clean up the glyph cache for ascii codes > < 128, for example, by having a shaping call per character code, so we only > need to store a single glyph in the cache, if you feel that would help. One > could also think about making the ascii code range which passes through the > glyph cache configurable, if you guys would prefer that over the static > list like the one I took over from the original patch proposition. I think it's worth a try. Even if an effort fails, that will help us understand why the current way is not bad. Is there anything else I can do that you or others would feel is valuable > to have? Feel free to keep the suggestions coming... > I'd also like to hear the voices of people who want to see ligatures on Vim. Best regards, Kazunobu > All the best, > > Manuel > > > > Kind regards, and enjoy your vacation, > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Kazunobu > > > > > > Manuel > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Kazunobu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding your question about the range of ascii characters to which > the tabulated cache is applied: Restricting this to subranges of [0,127] > that I mentioned should get you most of the speed improvement that can be > had from bypassing pango's shaping, and from what I understood, the space ' > ' is especially important, since it's used to clear the screen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the restriction to those subranges also means that strings > containing the popular "programming ligatures" like "<=", ">=", "!=", "->" > etc. will be subject to pango's shaping, thus ligatures are displayed... In > a way, we're selectively disabling the "shaping bypass" for less obvious > character ranges where ligatures are more likely (and more likely to be > missed by programmers). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this clarifies things a bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the interest, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manuel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. > > > > > > > > > > Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. > > > > > > > > > > For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "vim_dev" group. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. > > > > Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. > > > > For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php > > > > > > > > --- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "vim_dev" group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > -- > You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. > Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. > For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "vim_dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "vim_dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
