Easy alternative to captcha is some problem the answer to which you re
supposed to write in the edit box. What month comes after November? How much
is 5 and 5?
The way some of the networks use audio alternative, which works pretty fine
in some cases, they may have problem solution kind of alternative aswell.
Coming to the topic, social networks are not as intuitively accessible to us
as they are to the people they are originally designed for. Is there a
solution? With the popularity of Siri we will see many talk to type and
voice commands options on the web. Once social networks start implementing
them, we can live happily ever after. I can bet it will happen very soon. In
next four years if not sooner.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Rumery" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: What Leo Laporte Had To Say About Fedora Outlier LLC And Social
Media
Hi Neal,
I completely understand your point of view on this matter, and I respect
your input, but I still disagree with some of the things that you have said
about my response to Leo's question as to whether or not social networks
were usable by blind people. In my opinion these services are accessible to
us. Does that mean that they are 100% accessible? No they probably aren't.
I do believe that 100% accessibility is what we should all get just like our
sighted counterparts, but it is my belief that this is a bit unrealistic.
Remember we are a minority section of the population and these services
really probably do not give the blind computer user a second thought, even
though they should.
As for your comment about setting up an account with one of these services,
it is true that this can be a very aggravating thing for the blind user to
do, but because of spammers this is not going to change. Are the audio
screen Captchas awful? Of course they are, but they are designed that way
for a reason, and that reason is not to make it harder for us blind users to
sign up for their service, audio captchas are hard in an attempt to keep a
robot computer from being able to sign up for these services. I know that
you are probably aware of this, but I thought that just in case you weren't
I would explain this.
I would also like to have an easier way to solve these screen captchas but
at the moment there really isn't a good solution, unless you use Web Vissum
which is a Firefox extension you just have to do the best that you can with
the captcha.
I went back and listened to my conversation with Leo before writing this
message in an attempt to see if I was missing something, but I still cannot
see what it is that I said that you have an issue with. Could I have been a
little less enthusiastic with my "Absolutely" remark? I guess so, but
again, I was not on the radio to talk about the accessibility of these
sites, and when Leo asked me the question as to whether these social
networks are "USABLE" by blind people, I answered him with as honest an
answer as I could think of right on the spot.
One more thing that I would like to say on this matter is that I am not on
the radio very often, so I was a little nervous, and Leo Laport is probably
someone in the technology field that I really look up to and I was a little
in awe of the fact that I was talking to him.
I think that now we have said all that there is to say on this subject and I
suggest that we just agree to disagree and move on.
Scott Rumery
On Jul 10, 2012, at 4:02 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
Scott,
Thank you sincerely for replying, firstly, for absolute clarity it is not
my intention to start any form of mass criticism or, flaming, of you and
what you said to Leo.
I appreciate the full context and listened twice through before writing to
the list.
I'm still not completely in your line of thinking when it comes to
phraseology over what is, and what is not, accessible, usable or operable
by a blind user with a screen reader.
Sure, Face Book, Twitter and Linked In all can be used, but this is with a
major emphasis on can, and not, are easily, or, easily done so by the
masses within the blind world.
How for example do you even open an account with any of these three, the
last time I checked, all three use screen capture, which even when
offering an audio option, these are outrageously poor quality and to be
frank, require the patience, not to mention hearing, of a god to manage to
decipher.
Now once you have your account opened, sure its possible, with time,
patience, constant adapting and learning to figure how to use such
services, but, they do very little to assist us, and I struggle to believe
for a second that any of the major social networks have even considered
our user group.
Now, you rightly stat that this was not the purpose of your call to Leo's
show, and, indeed again rightly that I myself am free to contact him. I
have done so before on a range of issues, even to discuss Lemonade of all
things.
The thing that I take note, and to an extent, exception to, is in your
tone and mannerism within the context of the conversation, what I heard
was a blind person telling a hugely influential internet and online
presence commentator that these services are all usable.
now you and I may have one definition for usable, you might say that
usable simply means, with a hole load of ball ache, and a huge degree of
screen reader experience and knowledge you can use those services, but, to
the wider population and sighted user, you can bet your bottom dollar that
they took such phraseology and terminology to convey that these services
are not only usable in the widest definition, but, with a modicum of ease
and simplicity, such was the nature of your answer.
This was just my view, and as a blind lobbyist and commentator on our
community, not to mention someone who has a considerable experience in the
internet industry, I believe quite strongly in this stance.
Kindly.
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple
iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - [email protected]
Phone: - +44 844 999 4199
On 10 Jul 2012, at 00:44, Scott Rumery wrote:
Hello Neil,
I appreciate your comments but I think that you are maybe missing some of
the context of my conversation with Leo. Is it true that some of these
social networks are a bit problematic for us blind people to use? Yes
they can be, but I think as a blind person that uses them on a daily
basis that they are usable, and I believe that Leo's question was not if
they were totally accessible, but if they were able to be used by blind
people.
Could I have gotten on my soapbox about some of the inaccessibility of
some of these sites? I could have, but remember that this is a radio
show and my time with Leo was coming to an end.
Remember my call to Leo was to discuss using social networks to build an
audience for our business that we are trying to get started, not to
discuss whether or not we as blind people can use all of these sites. As
for my answer that they are absolutely accessible, I meant that they
are accessible in a general sense of the word, not that they are
completely accessible.
I hope that this clears it up a little, and if you want to talk about the
inaccessibility of these services then you are more than welcome to give
Leo a call yourself this weekend to talk to him about it. His show
begins at 2:00 P.M. Eastern Time on Saturday and goes until 5:00 P.M.
Eastern Time. It is on Sunday afternoon as well at the same time. His
toll free number is 1-888-875-637.
Scott Rumery
On Jul 9, 2012, at 6:11 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
I was surprised in fact to hear Scott so readily and easily suggest just
how usable and accessible Face Book and other social media sites and
services are.
This to me was a prime opportunity to really lay out on the table to a
core sector of the internet community, and Mr. Leo Laporte himself, thee
tech guy, just how dam lazy, lousy and poor many web-sites, online
services and applications truly are… and Scott just said, oh yeah, sure
they are accessible and all but completely usable.
The majority of folk would even argue that opening an account with many
of these services is hell on earth with screen capture etc, let alone
the myriad of unlabelled buttons, poorly laid out tables, difficult to
navigate interfaces and UI's, oh, not to mention, Face Book's complete
inaccessibility of their iOS App…
I would have focused on that, well Leo, let me tell you, some of it
works, but when we say works, we mean partially, or that with a little
guess work we can figure it out, but, the truth is that Face Book,
Linked In, Twitter etc could do way, way more to help us…
To my mind, and I'm sorry if this is taken harshly, Scott had a prime
opportunity to really state for the record to a hugely influential
person in this field just how bad things are, and failed to do so…
I'm sure that the promotion was good etc, but, what we need to be doing
is outlining to these people our predicament and what we need them to be
doing for us.
for example, check out the, stress not yet completed, www.TheOEF.org
its just my view...
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an
Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - [email protected]
Phone: - +44 844 999 4199
On 9 Jul 2012, at 00:20, VaShaun Jones wrote:
On this Saturday's episode of The Tech Guy podcast Leo Laporte spoke
with Scott Rumery of our firm about the importance of social media in
business. Leo is a tech luminary and pioneer of podcasting with over 30
years of radio and television experience. He is the founder of the TWIT
TV podcast network and currently has over 25 shows on life, technology
and law. We commend Scott for his initiative to bring this type of
exposure to the firm and we are proud to have him on our team.
Click to listen to the full dialog between Leo and Scott.
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