Well, if you're just speaking for yourself then you have the option of just not using an AI tool that provides these suggestive opinions. If you don't think others should have the option of using these tools then all I'd say is that I appreciate these tools and the subjective descriptions. I know it's coming from an AI, and I feel that I'm mature enough not to be jaded by these descriptions. When I use Be My AI to have a picture my wife painted described to me, I like to hear things like "vibrant blue". Even if it said something like "amateurish," I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that my wife isn't a good painter. I use it as much for entertainment as I do for information. When I read alt text on an image, I appreciate it even though I know it was provided by someone I don't know and what their biases may be. As with most things, I think it's up to each person whether they choose to use such a tool or not.
-- Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷ Chaltain at Outlook, USA -----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 8:21 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? John has hit the nail exactly on the head. I don’t want some anonymous AI programmed by God knows who with whatever dark algorithm that nobody knows about telling me what’s there and making subjective judgments about it. It’s just a bad idea. And there are plenty of examples in the news where there are misunderstandings across cultural and racial lines, and people have been killed for it. That black person was angry. They were threatening. Boom! Dead person. It’s just wrong. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 14, 2023, at 4:43 PM, realman02 via VIPhone <viphone@googlegroups.com> > wrote: > > My point -- and then I'll let this go and not comment -- is that I do not > want a machine large language model providing me with subjective opinions > about people, their expressions, etc. I think that should be reserved for > human to human interaction. Who knows if the description is accurate? Who > knows what criteria the AI program used to generate its description? > John Riehl > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of > Carolyn Arnold > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:06 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have > facial expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course, > expressions vary, but they are a part of a person's face. > > -----Original Message----- > From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > This is how I would rephrase the description: > >> The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and appears >> to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. His eyes are >> partially closed. > His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored polo > shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of > his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. > > John > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of > Carolyn Arnold > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of > us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I > might say about our expression. > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Chaltain > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting > at is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how > that might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated > descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from > another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of > interpretation. > > Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a > greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and > wouldn't be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky > yellow." We had a good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card. > > For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming > from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd > find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then > sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the > more sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find > the interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the > description. > > -- > Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷ > Chaltain at Outlook, USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of > Sieghard Weitzel > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI > is free not to use the service. > Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions > which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly > correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the > desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mary > Otten > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s > expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as > a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people > have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re > supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I > don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on > who is making these glorious language models and facial expression models > etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind > somebody else assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face > looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone >> <viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not >> human-to-human interaction; it's a large language model that's making those >> judgements. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Kellie >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because >> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have >> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions The beauty is we have >> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. >> Also, if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be >> through hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. >> You’re still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own >> judgment. Every single thing that is described to us is through someone >> else’s eyes or interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That >> means, every description is suspect since no two people are going to take >> away the same thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the >> artificial intelligence Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or >> etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it out. >> >> Kellie and my lovable Lady J >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we >>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it >>> sees. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>> Of Robert Doc Wright >>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>> >>> What is wrong with the truth? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Cristóbal Muñoz <mailto:cristobalm...@gmail.com> >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM >>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>> >>> >>> This topic reminds me of these two articles. >>> >>> Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame >>> <https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/blind-olympic-athletes-show-the-universal-nature-of-pride-and-shame> >>> >>> The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial >>> expressions by blind people: >>> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5902524/> >>> >>> Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used >>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I >>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my >>> iPhone in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type >>> of bean, region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other >>> info I wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… >>> >>> At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the >>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the >>> editorializing? >>> >>> >>> >>> Cristóbal >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of >>> Sieghard Weitzel >>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>> >>> >>> >>> What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you >>> as "serious" because you weren't smiling. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>> <viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of >>> Malcolm Parfitt >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM >>> >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>> >>> Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello friends. >>> >>> >>> >>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea >>> what I look like. >>> >>> >>> >>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when >>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub. I was very interested in the >>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo. It’s >>> description was: >>> >>> >>> >>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair >>> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head >>> of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or >>> serious expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. >>> He is clean-shaven. >>> >>> >>> >>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a >>> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" >>> in a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a >>> comfortable fit. >>> >>> >>> >>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central >>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the >>> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a >>> sighted person looking in a mirror. >>> >>> >>> >>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression. I >>> had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are >>> expressions learned or natural. How far do our expressions mirror those of >>> sighted people. I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s >>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious? >>> >>> >>> >>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do? >>> >>> >>> >>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject. >>> >>> >>> >>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested >>> in your opinions. >>> >>> Malcolm Parfitt >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>> list. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . 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