I have carried out accademic studies at some depth into the role of facial experessions and other types of what is sometimes termed body language. Firstly it is not possible to determine someone's inner emotional state from expressions reliably. Just because someone is smiling it does not always mean that they are happy, it can be just the reverse and smiling is a type of social signal. It is not even possible to determine that someone is lying by their body language and facial expressions, although the better someone knows a person the more reliable this can be. Studies of police interviewing suspects are no better than random chance at determining whether someone is telling the truth. The fact that someone can smile for a photograph just indicates how fake facial expressions can be. Anyone giving you a description of someone else is doing this through a system of mental filters and will vary wildly. I take the AI descriptions as much the same as a real person, that is, with a pinch of salt. I don't mind a degree of subjectivity since all such descriptions, AI or not are going to have an element of subjectivity. One of the great things about the AI is that it determines what it thinks is the most important element of the picture and appears to give this to you first. This saves time, and it usually seems to me it gives the people first and then other items as to whether they might be important or nearer the middle of the picture. This is always going to be subjective and personally I don't mind it and indeed I find it the most useful feature. I know others have a different opinion which is fine too.
On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 09:56:13 UTC Ketan Kothari wrote: > Hi friends, > > I am from India and have been using AI for a while. There are plusses > and minusses in every technology and I am shocked that we are wasting > so much of time for this. Look at it this way. I am able to achieve > quite a few things with AI that I couldn't otherwise. and of course, > we always have the choice not to use it. By the way, I have checked > the description with my sighted friends and there is generally > agreement between them and be my AI. Let us not clutter the group > with discussion that is more about end result of an app usage rather > than its accessibility. > > Ketan > > On 14/11/2023, CJ & AA MAY <[email protected]> wrote: > > We live in a world where predominantly people have vision and, as a > > minority, it is up to us to adapt. > > Sighted people have mentioned to me how uncomfortable they feel when > talking > > to a blind person who doesn't turn to face them when talking. > > A smile doesn't just indicate that you are happy, it is showing you are > > friendly and approachable, that you are grateful for help which is > given, it > > is a silent acknowledgement. > > Alison > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of > Mary > > Otten > > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:37 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > > > I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s > > expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. > And > > as a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times > people > > have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently > you’re > > supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. > So > > I don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, > based > > on who is making these glorious language models and facial expression > models > > etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind > > somebody else assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face > > looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody > else. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not > >> human-to-human interaction; it's a large language model that's making > >> those judgements. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of > >> Kellie > >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > >> > >> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just > >> because an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t > >> mean you have to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty > >> is we have deductive reasoning and can make that determination with > >> further input. Also, if you’re totally blind, every input of an > expression > >> is going to be through hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or > >> another human being. You’re still going by their interpretation of the > >> expression, not your own judgment. Every single thing that is described > to > >> us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation of what they > visually > >> perceive it to be. That means, every description is suspect since no two > >> people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why it doesn’t > really > >> bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that isn’t > maybe > >> how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it out. > >> > >> Kellie and my lovable Lady J > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if > we > >>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it > >>> sees. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > >>> Behalf Of Robert Doc Wright > >>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > >>> > >>> What is wrong with the truth? > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Cristóbal Muñoz <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM > >>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > >>> > >>> > >>> This topic reminds me of these two articles. > >>> > >>> Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame > >>> < > https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/blind-olympic-athletes-show-the-universal-nature-of-pride-and-shame > > > >>> > >>> The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial > >>> expressions by blind people: > >>> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5902524/> > >>> > >>> Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I > >>> used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to > >>> roast. I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture > >>> with my iPhone in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description > of > >>> the type of bean, region where they were grown, altitude and a whole > >>> bunch of other info I wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool > >>> cool… > >>> > >>> At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that > >>> the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with > >>> the editorializing? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Cristóbal > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of > >>> Sieghard Weitzel > >>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described > >>> you as "serious" because you weren't smiling. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> > >>> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf > >>> Of Malcolm Parfitt > >>> > >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM > >>> > >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> > >>> Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hello friends. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no > >>> idea what I look like. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently > >>> when we were in what we call in the UK a pub. I was very interested in > >>> the results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo. It’s > >>> description was: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His > >>> hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a > >>> full head of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat > >>> stern or serious expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he > has > >>> full lips. He is clean-shaven. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a > >>> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel > Smith" > >>> in a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a > >>> comfortable fit. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central > >>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about > >>> the man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a > >>> sighted person looking in a mirror. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression. I > >>> had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are > >>> expressions learned or natural. How far do our expressions mirror those > >>> of sighted people. I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s > >>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look > serious? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most > >>> interested in your opinions. > >>> > >>> Malcolm Parfitt > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >>> list. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > >>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > the > >>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> . 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Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >>> "VIPhone" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >>> email to [email protected]. > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/006401da1699%249363ce90%24ba2b6bb0%24%40gmail.com > . > >> > >> -- > >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >> list. > >> > >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >> > >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >> [email protected] > >> > >> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "VIPhone" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/174AFB78-2F52-4A31-8A23-1AB60A956635%40gmail.com > . > >> > >> -- > >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >> list. > >> > >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >> > >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >> [email protected] > >> > >> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "VIPhone" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/020901da16a5%243924d120%24ab6e7360%24%40verizon.net > . > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > > list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or > > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > > [email protected] > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "VIPhone" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/F1EA184A-B8F7-4D72-97C8-A19F5D31E1FD%40gmail.com > . > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > > list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or > > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > > [email protected] > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "VIPhone" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/004b01da1712%2463828800%242a879800%24%40gmail.com > . > > > > > -- > Ketan Kothari > Phone: [r] 02228283281, > Cell: +919987550614 <+91%2099875%2050614> > +917021054612 <+91%2070210%2054612> > Facebook: facebook.com/muktaketan > Twitter: @muktaketan > Skype ID: Ketan3333 > -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/0f4d2a2f-e996-4d6f-8833-0052b86855e0n%40googlegroups.com.
