Chris, Interesting point, and, as a side note…
I've long not been impressed when blind folk talk about GPS products being made accessible by mainstream firms, yes, we all agree that core functionality should be accessible… That might, for example, include making buttons labelled, ensuring that graphics are labelled and that general UI is user friendly. The key feature though that blind people seem to want made accessible, stating that sighted people can, so we should be to… Is not a feature of the App, rather the persons eyes and brain. Most users want the feature of, whats around me, made to be accessible. The issue here is that this is not what mainstream GPS products do. Thus, there is nothing to make accessible. Making something accessible is all about taking something that a thing does, and making it usable by all who wish to use it. If the product did not do the thing in the first place, but, you would like it to do it, then that is a modification or new feature. Mainstream GPS products show a map, with a marker of your location, the rest of the work, in terms of, where am I, what's around me and what's in front etc… All of that occurs in the sighted persons brain, they use their eyes, accumulate the data, and do the rest in their heads. We, blind users cannot do this, as we cannot interact with the screen. This is not an accessibility issue. We therefore need the products to do more than our sighted users do, we need a new feature. We need the GPS product to do the work for us. This is why a GPS with this feature, lets not think of it as one for the blind, just a GPS product with an additional feature. That is why this will cost more… It has an additional feature that other GPS products do not. Now, when pricing the product, the manufacturer, Sendero in this case, will sit down, work out how many units they could sell to any given number of users, then divide the cost of developing this feature down and coupled with all other development costs derive an end price. You of course have a choice, to buy a GPS with this feature or without it, but, I do get frustrated when folk turn this particular argument into an accessible or accessibility one. For the most part, what we are talking about is not an accessibility issue, its a feature set issue. One that only our group requires. Not many sighted users have such difficulty reading a map that they'd want it doing for them. This common notion that mainstream products should be made accessible, whilst true in certain instances, is not when it comes to select features of a GPS. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - [email protected] Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 27 Feb 2013, at 15:15, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote: > It's also worth bearing in mind that regardless of the price, unless of > course it's free, there will be some people who think it's too much. > This is understandable since the blind span the economic spectrum. It's > also human nature and not specific to the blind. > > There are also those who will label it as a blind ghetto product and > avoid it at all costs with the belief that main stream products should > be made more accessible rather than investing in applications specific > for the blind. I respect those who share this opinion, but I'm more > pragmatic than religious on this point, i.e. I'll use whatever I need to > to get the job done. I think my independence and ability to compete with > my sighted peers does more to promote the independence of the blind than > it does for me to avoid a product developed with the blind in mind. > Again, this is just my opinion, and I definitely respect those with a > contrary opinion. > > Finally, I can only speak for myself, but I'm not really too interested > in what others think about whether a price is fair or not. As Raul says, > this is a decision I'm going to make myself anyway. > > On 27/02/13 08:11, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >> One other nugget of thought to bear in mind, whatever is charged, Apple >> will be nabbing 30% of that, so just bear that in mind when the >> criticisms begin to flow. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Neil Barnfather >> >> Talks List Administrator >> Twitter @neilbarnfather >> >> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an >> Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your >> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >> <http://www.talknav.com> >> >> URL: - www.talknav.com <http://www.talknav.com> >> e-mail: - [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >> >> On 27 Feb 2013, at 06:49, Charles Dean <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> Years ago I bought the human ware Trekker which cost over twelve >>> hundred dollars. Considering the freedom it gave me, I still think it >>> was worth every penny. >>> >>> Unfortunately, so many apps are so inexpensive that when one appears >>> with a higher prize tag, many of us get a little sticker shock. >>> >>> If this app proves to be as good as I hope, I will buy it no matter >>> what the costs. >>> >>> Chuck (mobile) >>> Please x cuze any tie ping or spelin airors. >>> >>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 11:36 PM, "Raul A. Gallegos" >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> The one thing to keep in mind once the price is announced is how much >>>> is this app worth to some of us. Remember that specific installs for >>>> the braille note and braille cents products cost more than $600. Also >>>> remember that many commercial GPS apps for the iPhone itself can cost >>>> anywhere from $25-$55. I have no idea what the price for this app >>>> will be, however I do know that once that price is announced if >>>> people don't like it there will definitely be a lot of vocalisation >>>> from peoples opinions. I only say this because any time and >>>> accessibility app is announced in that price is more than five >>>> dollars, people seem to make a big deal over it. I can look through >>>> the archives and discussions of the access notetaker app, >>>> blindsquare, Fleksy, Sendero's Look Around app, and the various daisy >>>> readers Have mostly initially been met with criticism over the price. >>>> Some people will purchase the app despite the cost because they want >>>> to support the developer. Others will purchase the app because it is >>>> worth it to them. And still others might wait for the app to go on >>>> sale before they make a purchase. My purchasing history shows that >>>> depending on the app in question I could fall into any of those >>>> categories. Fleksy and blindsquare were apps which I purchased only >>>> after they went on sale. Yet voice dream reader and looktel >>>> recognizer were apps I purchased at full price. And finally, apps >>>> light digit-eyes and read2go our ones which I have not purchased and >>>> don't intend to. So my only point in writing this message is to >>>> remind everyone, including myself, that no matter what the price of a >>>> new app is, we will have to decide for ourselves if it is really >>>> worth it to us considering our personal needs and the features >>>> contained in the app. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> >>>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi List, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This does indeed sound very promising and I especially think one of >>>>> the best news about this is that they use both Navteq and OSM maps >>>>> as well as POI’s from Navteq, Foursquare and OSM. This should really >>>>> provide very good and up-to-date map and POI information. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maybe we can all have a few less apps on the phone since this one >>>>> will most likely make some others redundant. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I also would imagine that since Seeing-Eye is involved in funding >>>>> the project that the price for the app maybe more reasonable than we >>>>> all may think. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Sieghard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Richard Turner >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 26, 2013 2:02 PM >>>>> *To:* ViPone list >>>>> *Subject:* Fwd: Announcing the Seeing Eye GPS app free preview, new >>>>> 2013 Sendero products, and remote CSUN access! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wasn't sure if this had been seen on this list: >>>>> >>>>> *From:*[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Kim Casey >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 25, 2013 4:07 PM >>>>> *To:* 'Kim Casey' >>>>> *Subject:* Announcing the Seeing Eye GPS app free preview, new >>>>> 2013 Sendero products, and remote CSUN access! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sendero Group has been designing accessible GPS since 1994. >>>>> Almost 20 years of user feedback and feature requests are behind >>>>> the design of all Sendero GPS products. The accessible features >>>>> in Seeing Eye GPS are only the beginning of what is yet to come >>>>> as users help in evolving this first fully accessible GPS >>>>> product for the iPhone. To participate in the preview, visit us >>>>> at CSUN Booth 521 or reply to this email and we will send you a >>>>> link for a Test Flight as soon as it is available. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> About Seeing Eye GPS >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Getting around independently is a function of good mobility >>>>> tools like a guide dog or cane and good orientation tools like >>>>> accessible GPS. Two pioneers in their fields, The Seeing Eye and >>>>> Sendero Group have teamed up to provide a fully accessible >>>>> turn-by-turn GPS iPhone app with all the normal navigation >>>>> features plus features unique to blind users. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * Instead of multiple layers of menus, the 3 important >>>>> navigation elements are on the lower portion of every screen, >>>>> Route, POIs and Location. >>>>> >>>>> * At intersections, the street name and your direction of travel >>>>> are announced. >>>>> >>>>> * Intersections are described like 4-way with the clock face >>>>> orientation of the streets. >>>>> >>>>> * There are 3 choices for POI data and 2 map sources. >>>>> >>>>> * Directions are configured appropriately for Pedestrian and >>>>> vehicle routes including heads up when approaching a turn, the >>>>> turn now indication, continue straight and where the subsequent >>>>> turn is located. >>>>> >>>>> * When the user wanders off the route, it is automatically >>>>> recalculated and updated turn information is announced. >>>>> >>>>> * Point your phone in a given direction to hear what is nearby >>>>> with the LookAround Wand. >>>>> >>>>> * Nearby Points of interest and intersections are automatically >>>>> announced. >>>>> >>>>> For more information go to >>>>> http://www.senderogroup.com/products/shopseeingeyegps.htm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> New 2013 Sendero products >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Announcing Sendero PC GPS 2013, adds GPS functionality to >>>>> Sendero PC Maps and works on Windows laptops, Tablets, and >>>>> ultrabooks. >>>>> >>>>> New 2013 maps and POIs for Sendero GPS, Sense Navigation, and >>>>> Mobile Geo plus much faster POI searches >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Not going to CSUN – No problem! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks to the folks at Accessible World Tek Talk, you can join >>>>> in the fun and listen into the following presentations. >>>>> >>>>> February 28, Thursday, 9:30 - 10:30 PM, Testing a Prototype >>>>> iPhone People Finder App >>>>> >>>>> March 1, Friday, 2:00 - 3:00 PM, Showing the Seeing Eye GPS >>>>> iPhone App >>>>> >>>>> Just go to: >>>>> http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2 >>>>> at the scheduled session time. If you are a first-time user of >>>>> the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a >>>>> small, safe software program that you need to download and then >>>>> run. Visit http://accessibleworld.org/audio-tc-faq-page for >>>>> information on howto get your computer set up for the session. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For more information on all of these items, go to >>>>> http://www.SenderoGroup.com <http://www.senderogroup.com/> or >>>>> call Sendero toll free at 1-888-757-6810 >>>>> >>>>> Don't forget to sign up for our SenderoGPS Twitter account to >>>>> hear play-by-play comments as the new iPhone app is rolled out! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google Group. >>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
