This is a new feature started with iOS 7. If you are in and edit field, and the edit field is active, you can do a two finger double tap to start dictation.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: [email protected] Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 13 Nov 2013, at 12:46, Joanne Chua <[email protected]> wrote: > > I never know 2 finger double tap will start dictation. i always thought, and > do so, that two finger double tap will play music, unless you are on specific > apps like facebook, that will give you different actions. > > > Joanne Chua > The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. > Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate > Send from my iPad > >> On 12 Nov 2013, at 23:18, Ricardo Walker <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I’m not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call >> with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better >> in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years >> have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user >> error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some >> unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start >> dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no >> way this can be user error. lol. >> >> JMO. >> >> Ricardo Walker >> [email protected] >> Twitter:@apple2thecore >> www.appletothecore.info >> >>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were >>> quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, >>> with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it >>> does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the >>> gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's >>> responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures >>> properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help >>> each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. >>> >>> It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the >>> gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and >>> entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the >>> gestures. >>> >>> Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how >>> many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's >>> fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly >>> performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: [email protected] >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, >>>> regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when >>>> it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of >>>> the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to >>>> report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their >>>> own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the >>>> future software and hardware. >>>> I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new >>>> platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not >>>> be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. >>>> The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead >>>> of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and >>>> that, and how Voiceover do this and that. >>>> You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and >>>> friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, >>>> since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe >>>> i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability >>>> of saving phone numbers and contact details. >>>> >>>> Joanne Chua >>>> The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. >>>> Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate >>>> Send from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be >>>>> careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity >>>>> and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. >>>>> Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we >>>>> should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards >>>>> accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For >>>>> example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 >>>>> and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just >>>>> because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. >>>>> >>>>> It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. >>>>> People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. >>>>> There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and >>>>> one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't >>>>> think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from >>>>> mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get >>>>> frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say >>>>> where that line should be drawn, and I think we should be careful when we >>>>> chastise someone for being spoiled and whining. Like I said, we want >>>>> people talking about the issues they're having with their iPhones because >>>>> as good as the Iphone is, it could still be better and it could >>>>> definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect resources away >>>>> from accessibility and towards other critical projects. >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: >>>>>> John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my >>>>>> Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, >>>>>> because look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us >>>>>> a pretty good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about >>>>>> people bitching and complaining about Apple not living up to their >>>>>> standards. Even on the Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do >>>>>> this and do that to make Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired >>>>>> of this. I think if I find another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit >>>>>> the delete button because that is my friend of course. I’ll just end off >>>>>> by saying if you don’t like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go >>>>>> to Windows and Android. Now that my rant’s over, Regina, I have an >>>>>> iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi issues. >>>>>> >>>>>> Shawn >>>>>> Sent From My White Mac Book >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that Sieghard >>>>>>> put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about >>>>>>> their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy >>>>>>> with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the >>>>>>> vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite >>>>>>> well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. >>>>>>> At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new >>>>>>> version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the >>>>>>> phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us >>>>>>> upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the >>>>>>> ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just >>>>>>> a few short years ago. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, David Chittenden <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time >>>>>>>> tracking in >>>>>>>> Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO >>>>>>>> struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have >>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>> a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO >>>>>>>> struggles >>>>>>>> appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks >>>>>>>> through the >>>>>>>> form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the >>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>> screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. >>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>> there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. >>>>>>>> Physically >>>>>>>> find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the >>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>> display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button >>>>>>>> above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This >>>>>>>> releases >>>>>>>> the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or >>>>>>>> otherly worded button and split-tap it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>> of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not >>>>>>>> impossible, for computer-based screen readers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone >>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>> the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that >>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>> cannot access on Windows and IE 10. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows >>>>>>>> Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a >>>>>>>> specifically >>>>>>>> written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>>>>> Email: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here is my summary of this entire thread: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable >>>>>>>>> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> save it to contacts >>>>>>>>> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >>>>>>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible >>>>>>>>> Apple is >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally >>>>>>>>> accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's "rights" are violated in a >>>>>>>>> number of ways. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very >>>>>>>>> general >>>>>>>>> way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a >>>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>> iOS >>>>>>>>> to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, >>>>>>>>> but he >>>>>>>>> argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. >>>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>> this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to >>>>>>>>> upgrade >>>>>>>>> to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> says >>>>>>>>> that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing >>>>>>>>> anything >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not >>>>>>>>> happen. >>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>> Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the >>>>>>>>> automatic >>>>>>>>> downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of >>>>>>>>> pressure >>>>>>>>> there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for >>>>>>>>> getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now, as to the 4 items above: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable >>>>>>>>> I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but >>>>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>> just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since >>>>>>>>> iOS >>>>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>>> was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or >>>>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>>>> a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. >>>>>>>>> There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as >>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>> right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. >>>>>>>>> As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> hung >>>>>>>>> up or is still connected. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> save it to contacts >>>>>>>>> This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call >>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts >>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>> really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> the one who posted that all of this didn't work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >>>>>>>>> This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it >>>>>>>>> since I >>>>>>>>> don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google >>>>>>>>> searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. >>>>>>>>> If I >>>>>>>>> talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the >>>>>>>>> government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. >>>>>>>>> More >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> that they might as well shut up then because if they don't >>>>>>>>> participate in >>>>>>>>> electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not >>>>>>>>> saying >>>>>>>>> Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters >>>>>>>>> problems, >>>>>>>>> but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also >>>>>>>>> takes >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> time to compose a constructive email to [email protected] to >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>> they know about the issues. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >>>>>>>>> Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the >>>>>>>>> iPhone >>>>>>>>> can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. >>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my Windows >>>>>>>>> Smartphone >>>>>>>>> with MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke and waste of time. Apps >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> almost non-existent and I wore out the battery cover on my phone >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> had to open it up so often to take the battery out when it crashed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apple has done more for main stream accessibility in the last 4 years >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> all other companies combined in the last 25 years yet here people are >>>>>>>>> complaining about the horrible accessibility and how buying an >>>>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>>>> phone apparently gives them the right to have perfect accessibility >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> everything else. Next thing I'm sure people thing Apple is responsible >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> them being blind to begin with. But of course Apple, the most >>>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>>> tech company ever, gets bashed left right and centre by everybody, why >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> by the blind. I for one find it is getting old and it's very tiring. I >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> don't think this attitude will motivate Apple do do better. >>>>>>>>> Constructive >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> detailed reporting of bugs, maybe I should say "real bugs" not user >>>>>>>>> error >>>>>>>>> bugs and well thought-out suggestions for improvements will eventually >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> things better, I'm sure the accessibility team is not twittling their >>>>>>>>> thumbs >>>>>>>>> but instead are working on fixing reported bugs and issues. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Sieghard >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>>>>>> Google Group. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an >>>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>>>>> Google >>>>>>>> Group. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>>>> Google Group. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Christopher (CJ) >>>>> chaltain at Gmail >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> >>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> >>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> More 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