I don't see why when you guys report a bug or flaw in their system of the phone while you're doing it to the list why don't you CC a copy to the Apple people
Sent from my iPhone On 2013-11-11, at 1:53 PM, "Christopher Chaltain" <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful > here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and > something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility > is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and > cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't > just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for > Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for > greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss > us this accessible scrap. > > It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People > should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be > cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's > reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations > of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs > and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as > people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, > and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled > and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're > having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be > better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect > resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. > > On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: >> John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my >> Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because >> look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty >> good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching >> and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the >> Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make >> Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find >> another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that >> is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, >> sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows and Android. Now that my >> rant’s over, Regina, I have an iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi >> issues. >> >> Shawn >> Sent From My White Mac Book >> >> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I think that Sieghard >>> put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about >>> their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy >>> with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the >>> vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite >>> well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. >>> At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new >>> version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the >>> phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us >>> upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the >>> ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just >>> a few short years ago. >>> >>> >>> On 11/10/13, David Chittenden <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. >>>> >>>> The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in >>>> Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO >>>> struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have >>>> quite >>>> a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles >>>> appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the >>>> form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual >>>> screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, >>>> there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. >>>> Physically >>>> find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual >>>> display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with >>>> the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to >>>> then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button >>>> above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases >>>> the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same >>>> procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or >>>> otherly worded button and split-tap it. >>>> >>>> again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many >>>> of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not >>>> impossible, for computer-based screen readers. >>>> >>>> In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using >>>> the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws >>>> cannot access on Windows and IE 10. >>>> >>>> As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows >>>> Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically >>>> written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the >>>> phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: [email protected] >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Here is my summary of this entire thread: >>>>> >>>>> The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable >>>>> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it >>>>> or >>>>> save it to contacts >>>>> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >>>>> >>>>> Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is >>>>> in >>>>> general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't >>>>> work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally >>>>> accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's "rights" are violated in a >>>>> number of ways. >>>>> >>>>> As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very >>>>> general >>>>> way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new >>>>> iOS >>>>> to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he >>>>> argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. >>>>> However, >>>>> this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to >>>>> upgrade >>>>> to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your >>>>> phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who >>>>> says >>>>> that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything >>>>> or >>>>> twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. >>>>> If >>>>> Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic >>>>> downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because >>>>> at >>>>> that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already >>>>> their >>>>> choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to >>>>> free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of >>>>> pressure >>>>> there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for >>>>> getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. >>>>> >>>>> Now, as to the 4 items above: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable >>>>> I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is >>>>> just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at >>>>> least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS >>>>> 7 >>>>> was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or >>>>> mentioned >>>>> a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. >>>>> There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and >>>>> that >>>>> is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's >>>>> right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. >>>>> As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was >>>>> hung >>>>> up or is still connected. >>>>> >>>>> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it >>>>> or >>>>> save it to contacts >>>>> This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for >>>>> them. >>>>> A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, >>>>> a >>>>> double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. >>>>> I'd >>>>> really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think >>>>> was >>>>> the one who posted that all of this didn't work. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >>>>> This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I >>>>> don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google >>>>> searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the >>>>> Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this >>>>> so >>>>> horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I >>>>> talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the >>>>> government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More >>>>> than >>>>> once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them >>>>> that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in >>>>> electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not >>>>> saying >>>>> Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters >>>>> problems, >>>>> but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes >>>>> the >>>>> time to compose a constructive email to [email protected] to make >>>>> sure >>>>> they know about the issues. >>>>> >>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >>>>> Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for >>>>> some >>>>> time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the >>>>> iPhone >>>>> can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's >>>>> of >>>>> course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the >>>>> features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my Windows Smartphone >>>>> with MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke and waste of time. Apps were >>>>> almost non-existent and I wore out the battery cover on my phone because >>>>> I >>>>> had to open it up so often to take the battery out when it crashed. >>>>> >>>>> Apple has done more for main stream accessibility in the last 4 years >>>>> than >>>>> all other companies combined in the last 25 years yet here people are >>>>> complaining about the horrible accessibility and how buying an expensive >>>>> phone apparently gives them the right to have perfect accessibility and >>>>> everything else. Next thing I'm sure people thing Apple is responsible >>>>> for >>>>> them being blind to begin with. But of course Apple, the most successful >>>>> tech company ever, gets bashed left right and centre by everybody, why >>>>> not >>>>> by the blind. I for one find it is getting old and it's very tiring. I >>>>> also >>>>> don't think this attitude will motivate Apple do do better. Constructive >>>>> and >>>>> detailed reporting of bugs, maybe I should say "real bugs" not user error >>>>> bugs and well thought-out suggestions for improvements will eventually >>>>> make >>>>> things better, I'm sure the accessibility team is not twittling their >>>>> thumbs >>>>> but instead are working on fixing reported bugs and issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Sieghard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> >>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> >>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google >>>> Group. >>>> >>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >>>> >>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>> >>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>> [email protected]. >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>> [email protected]. >>>> >>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> >>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >>> >>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>> >>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>> [email protected]. >>> >>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>> [email protected]. >>> >>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > > Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. > > Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > > Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing > [email protected]. > > Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing > [email protected]. > > More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. 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