What is accessible for you? The tool that allows to access something that is not accessible on a normal way?
Ok, we should say them, the web site for report bugs is not blind friendly. From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of bhad...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 4:18 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: why I don't like iOS 8: was Re: IOS is complete crap with VoiceOver That is not true. The bug reporting page is accessible, but takes practice to use. On Friday, September 26, 2014 2:30:55 PM UTC-5, Charles Rivard wrote: I know that at least one tester on this list has said that the web page to report bugs was, for the most part, not accessible. This would greatly hamper the reporting process during testing. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" <robin-...@comcast.net <javascript:> > To: <vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:13 AM Subject: Re: why I don't like iOS 8: was Re: IOS is complete crap with VoiceOver The only way Mobile Platforms are going to improve, in my opinion, is if people offer "constructive criticism" on how to make their experience better on said Mobile Platform whether it be Microsoft's WP (Windows), Google's Android, and/or Apple's iOS. Personally, I like the similarities & differences between them all as a non-biased MobilePhone (Mobile Platform) user. I dabble in each Mobile Arena to explore their features. Why is Apple receiving criticism concerning its latest iOS release, I think it is based on its reputation of providing a smooth experience, and I presume people aren't able to receive that smooth experience with iOS8. Thus, the criticism. As for Apple caring about accessibility, I beg to differ especially if the "Blind & LowVision" Beta Testers reported perceived "bugs" and/or "flaws" during the Beta Testing Phase in a timely manner so as to allow Apple to resolve these "flaws" and/or "bugs" prior to iOS8's Official Release (September 17TH). Just Sayin' At 06:52 AM 9/26/2014, you wrote: >The issue is not whether they are concerned about accessibility, it's >obvious that they are. It goes much deeper, this really has nothing to do >with accessibility directly, it's a quality control issue. The operating >system simply was not tested enough before release. As far as android, it's >just as useable as IOS, but is definitely a different platform, I like both >platforms, but for different reasons. Is one better than the other? I don't >think so, they're just different. >Original message: >> Frankly, I don't think the problems with iOS 8 would tempt me to >> consider Android. As far as Talk Back has come, it's still along way off >> and Android has plenty of other problems that go beyond accessibility. >> Good luck if you go that route. You are in for a lot of fun ... > >> The reality is iOS 8 has plenty of bugs. Should it have been >> released to the public? No. Should more consideration have been taken >> for accessibility? Without a doubt. People have to answer to this in >> Apple and accessibility needs to hear about it. We all paid good money >> for our iDevices and Apple has set a pretty big expectation and standard >> for accessibility that this release has tarnished. If they are looking >> for the "gold standard", this was not a step in that direction for sure. > >> However, with that said, as I said on Triple Click Home, anyone who >> feels Apple doesn't care or is abandoning accessibility is sadly mistaken >> and talking out of their posteriors. That is the farthest mindset inside >> the company, regardless of iOS 8. I have witnessed a serious commitment >> to accessibility and an effort to make the company inside aware of >> accessibility issues in all areas. > >> I have my own theories as to what is going on, but those are things >> I am not going to talk about without knowing nor do I like to engage in >> speculation of that kind. That only leads to more rumors and >> assumptions. I'm sure, though, they hear us loud and clear after this >> mishap. > > > >>Take Care > >>John D. Panarese >>Director >>Mac for the Blind >>Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>Email, jo...@macfortheblind.com <javascript:> >>Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com > >>APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OS X LION and OS X Mountain >>Lion > >>AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE > >>MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT > > > > > >>>On Sep 25, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Brian Fischler <brianf...@me.com <javascript:> >>>> wrote: > >>>I am the one who posted this topic, and I find it funny how many people >>>want to defend Apple as if I have offended a relative of theirs. I'm >>>sorry, but why do people expect the blind to have lesser expectations >>>than our sighted counterparts when buying a product and operating system >>>that has been marketed as fully accessible? I get there are going to be >>>bugs but the dial pad bug, VO constantly crashing on a 5S, yes 5S, the >>>scrolling issues, these are all major issues that should have never made >>>it to a full release. Can I live with them, yes, but should I have to, >>>no. Will I still buy Apple, most likely yes, as I have invested so >>>heavily in a fully Apple ecosystem, iPhone, iMac, and Mac Air, but as >>>someone who has never even picked up a Droid, or used Jaws as my vision >>>went in 2009, I'm starting to at least listen to the other side, >>>something I thought I would never do. >>>On Sep 25, 2014, at 1:00 PM, SoonerAnnie <soone...@att.net <javascript:> > >>>wrote: > >>>>My 4S is doing better than my 5S. Fortunately I'm not having any >>>>crashing >>>>problems for the most part, but the caller ID on my 5S doesn't announce >>>>who's calling anymore! Major disappointment! However, my 4S, which >>>>doesn't >>>>have cell service but began ringing after this update, does announce >>>>who's >>>>calling. So go figure! LOL > >>>>Ann > >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ron Pelletier" <ron.pe...@sympatico.ca <javascript:> > >>>>To: <vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > >>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:47 PM >>>>Subject: RE: why I don't like iOS 8: was Re: IOS is complete crap with >>>>VoiceOver > > >>>>Sharonda, > >>>>Maybe Apple is not complete crap but, in view of what they pulled today, >>>>its >>>>making people wonder if the extra money they pay for an Apple product is >>>>really worth it. They seem to have completely abused the confidence of >>>>their customers by letting down their quality control which, in fact, is >>>>complete crap. As far as I am concerned, the subjet line can stay there >>>>for >>>>a while > >>>>Ron & Danvers > > >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>[mailto:vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> ] On >>>>Behalf >>>>Of Sharonda Greenlaw >>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:17 PM >>>>To: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>Subject: why I don't like iOS 8: was Re: IOS is complete crap with >>>>VoiceOver > >>>>Personally, I believe the subject should be changed. iOS is not >>>>complete >>>>crap. It may not have all of the bugs worked out, but it is not complete >>>>crap. That's just one person's opin ion. > >>>>Sharonda >>>>Sent from my mobile device; please excuse all mistakes > >>>>>On Sep 24, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Christopher Chaltain <chal...@gmail.com >>>>><javascript:> > >>>>>wrote: > >>>>>I don't think it's exclusive to people running IOS 8 on the 4S. Brian >>>>>for >>>>>example, who started this thread, said he's running IOS 8 on his 5s. > >>>>>>On 09/24/2014 09:09 AM, John Diakogeorgiou wrote: >>>>>>It seems to me that the people who are having crashing problems with >>>>>>IOS 8 are those with 4s's. It's very possible that the 4s can't >>>>>>handle the requirements of IOS with other apps and Apple shouldn't >>>>>>have supported it. > >>>>>>>On 9/24/14, Ųyvind Lode <oyv...@lode.is <javascript:> > wrote: >>>>>>>First of all I must say that I don't regret upgrading my 4s to iOS 8. >>>>>>>However, VoiceOver crashes all the time on my 4s. >>>>>>>I have not found a pattern to all the crashes. >>>>>>>The good thing is that VO at least restarts when it decide to die on >>>>>>>me. >>>>>>>But it crashes at least 10-15 times a day and I know when it crashed >>>>>>>VO is on, screen curtain on etc is announced. >>>>>>>I have done a reset - reset to factory settings but still the same. > >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>>>>[mailto:vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> ] On >>>>>>>Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain >>>>>>>Sent: 24. september 2014 13:53 >>>>>>>To: vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: IOS is complete crap with VoiceOver > >>>>>>>Doing as David suggests is probably best, but it might also be the >>>>>>>case that your voice was turned off. Try a three finger double tap >>>>>>>to toggle the voice on and off. > >>>>>>>Also, if you have the home button set as your VoiceOver short cut, >>>>>>>try a triple tap of the home button. Recycling VoiceOver helps me in >>>>>>>similar situations. Maybe you can use Siri to turn VoiceOver off and >>>>>>>then back on as well. > >>>>>>>I've seen a couple of posts now to where IOS 8 with it's VoiceOver >>>>>>>bugs is compared to blindness specific products or older smart phone >>>>>>>technologies, like Windows Mobile running Mobile Accessibility. >>>>>>>IMHO, one of the great things about Apple and their commitment to >>>>>>>making their main stream products accessible is that we get treated >>>>>>>the same as the rest of their main stream customers. I fear that if >>>>>>>we lower the bar with our expectations then we're no better off then >>>>>>>when we use those so called blind ghetto products that so many >>>>>>>people are quick to thumb their noses at. Let's give Apple credit >>>>>>>where credit is due, but let's just not roll over like blind Uncle >>>>>>>Tom's being happy with whatever accessibility Apple thinks we'll be >>>>>>>content with. > >>>>>>>>On 09/24/2014 12:18 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>>>>>>When VO goes quiet like that, take your fingers away from the >>>>>>>>iPhone. iOS is performing memory management. Give a chance for iOS / >>>>>>>>VO >>>>>>>>to catch up. >>>>>>>>Something similar occurred with iOS 7 when it first came out. >>>>>>>>Unlike blindness specific poducts which can take six months to a >>>>>>>>year to be fixed, Apple's history is to take one-three months. >>>>>>>>Let's see what happens. > >>>>>>>>David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>>>>>Email: dchit...@gmail.com <javascript:> >>>>>>>>Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>>>>>Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>>>>On 24 Sep 2014, at 14:49, Brian Fischler <brianf...@me.com >>>>>>>>><javascript:> > >>>>>>>>>wrote: > >>>>>>>>>I'm sorry but VoiceOver on my 5S has now complete crap on IOS 8 as >>>>>>>>>for the second time today VoiceOver has completely crapped out >>>>>>>>>while tapping the screen at the same time a push notification >>>>>>>>>comes through. VoiceOVer just dies and if I press the home button >>>>>>>>>and tell Siri to tell Siri to turn VO on Siri tells me VO is >>>>>>>>>already on. Ok, really then why am I hearing nothing but clicks. >>>>>>>>>Then I go to press the power on/off button and the home button to >>>>>>>>>restart the phone and now that doesn't work as I hear the photo >>>>>>>>>being >>>>>>>>>taken sound. Really impressive job with IOS8 Apple. >>>>>>>>>I'm sorry but this IOS 8 release with all of its bugs is total >>>>>>>>>crap and a really piss poor job by Apple for the blind community. >>>>>>>>>If you haven't upgraded yet don't until 8.1 and that is if Apple >>>>>>>>>can be bothered to actually make some VO changes in that one as it >>>>>>>>>is obvious there engineers are more focused on other areas and >>>>>>>>>VoiceOver is at the bottom of the food chain. Time to start at >>>>>>>>>least listening to what Droid is doin >>>>>>>g, never thought I would say that having been on the iPhone since >>>>>>>the 3GS and completely shifting all my products to Apple, but this >>>>>>>release and the >>>>>>>35 or so VO bugs is making me start to think maybe Apple isn't the >>>>>>>answer. > >>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>>>>viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by >>>>>>>>>default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running >>>>>>>>>of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is >>>>>>>>>inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly >>>>>>>>>rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list >>>>>>>>>can be searched at >>>>>>>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>>>--- >>>>>>>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>send an email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>>>>>>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>><javascript:> . >>>>>>>>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Christopher (CJ) >>>>>>>chaltain at Gmail > >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>>>>list. >>>>>>>All new members to the this list are moderated by default. 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The archives for this list can be searched at >>>>>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>--- >>>>>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>send an email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>>>>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>><javascript:> . >>>>>>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>>>>list. >>>>>>>All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>>>>>have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>>>>>>you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>>>owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>itself. The archives for this list can be searched at >>>>>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>--- >>>>>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>send an email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>>>>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>><javascript:> . >>>>>>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > >>>>>-- >>>>>Christopher (CJ) >>>>>chaltain at Gmail > >>>>>-- >>>>>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>>list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>>>have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>>>>you >>>>>feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>>>>or >>>>>moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The >>>>>archives >>>>>for this list can be searched at >>>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>an >>>>>email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>>. >>>>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>-- >>>>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>list. >>>>All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have >>>>any >>>>questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel >>>>that a >>>>member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >>>>directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this >>>>list >>>>can be searched at >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>--- >>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>Groups >>>>"VIPhone" group. >>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>an >>>>email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>. >>>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>-- >>>>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>list. >>>>All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have >>>>any >>>>questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel >>>>that a >>>>member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >>>>directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this >>>>list >>>>can be searched at >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>--- >>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>Groups >>>>"VIPhone" group. >>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>an >>>>email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>. >>>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>-- >>>>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>>have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>>>feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>>>moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>>>for this list can be searched at >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>--- >>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>an email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >>>>. >>>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>-- >>>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>>feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>>moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>>for this list can be searched at >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>--- >>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>"VIPhone" group. >>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>-- >>The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>for this list can be searched at >>http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>--- >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>"VIPhone" group. >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >-- >The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. >All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any >questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a >member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list >can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "VIPhone" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . To post to this group, send email to vip...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. 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