Hi Jonathan,
I totally agree. Apple obviously wants people to use iOS devices for word processing and maybe even for spreadsheet and presentations otherwise they wouldn’t offer Pages, Numbers and Keynote free of charge. Microsoft obviously feels the same way and therefore accessibility for these apps needs to catch up. Sometimes when I go to an email or note Voiceover reads information about the font, font size and so on, but I don’t know of a way to ask for this information on demand. Regards, Sieghard From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Mosen Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 10:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Microsoft Office Apps Now Individually Available Hi Sieghard, for me the fundamental point here, and I'm pretty confident you and most competent screen reader users will agree, is that there are real dangers in expecting every individual app developer to have to compensate for the deficiencies of a screen reader by having to make their own decisions about whether, when, and how to voice formatting attributes. Being able to query attributes is a core screen reader function, and now that word processing is really becoming viable on iOS, we need to point this out constructively to Apple I think. Then they can put in place a UI that will work with any app the user chooses. Given that such commands are already in OS X, Apple knows what to do. Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org On 11/11/2014, at 7:47 am, Sieghard Weitzel <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Hi Joseph, I think you are splitting hairs here. You say the attribute information can be read by Voiceover, but you can't provide exactly which gestures or keyboard commands produce this information. I think what you are saying is that Voiceover could read this information if the developers made it accessible which of course is the same as "the attribute information is inaccessible". If this still is not what you mean then I guess nobody really gets your point. Also, just FYI, Richard and Jonathan pointed out you don't need an @outlook.com <http://outlook.com> or @live.com <http://live.com> email address to set up a Microsoft account. You say that this is not what you meant and they were misreading your original email where you said: You will need a Microsoft related account such as an email address which ends with @live.com <http://live.com> or @outlook.com <http://outlook.com> . Yes, you say you need a Microsoft account and "such as" @live.com <http://live.com> or @outlook.com <http://outlook.com> . But if, as you always like to point out, you want to explain stuff for people so there are no misunderstandings or you want to correct others who give information which is not complete, you should have maybe phrased it in a less ambiguous way: You will need a Microsoft account which could be an email address you can set up like @outlook.com <http://outlook.com> , @live.com <http://live.com> , @hotmail.com <http://hotmail.com> etc. or you can also set up a Microsoft account using your existing email address. I bet Richard would have found no fault with that statement hence you would have not had to try and defend it, Jonathan would not have felt he should have supported Richard on that and so on. In short, it would have probably meant at least 5 or 6 less messages on a busy list. I know I am probably offending you again by writing this as I recall that a couple of months ago there were similar situations where you reacted very defensively if anybody corrected you on anything and then you sort of disappeared completely for a couple of months. I really don't think Richard was trying to insult you when he added that you don't need an @outlook.com <http://outlook.com> or @live.com <http://live.com> email address when you create a Microsoft account and maybe a reply like "Thanks, Richard, for clarifying, you can of course create a Microsoft account with your own email and maybe that wasn't clear in my message" would have been an alternative response. Regards, Sieghard -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joseph FreeTech Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 10:32 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office Apps Now Individually Available You're redirecting my point to whatever goal you have in mind, which is not relevant to the current discussion since I said nothing about Bluetooth keyboards or gestures as a means of accessing this information. I simply stated the attribute information can be read by VoiceOver and that it might only be an issue or limitation with the software developer and not VoiceOver as you previously claimed. Again, I'm trying to correct misunderstandings but these lists make this process difficult. Joseph ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Mosen" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > To: <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Microsoft Office Apps Now Individually Available Hi Joseph, then perhaps you could please tell us the Bluetooth keyboard commands and gestures to query the font attributes of the focussed item in iOS? We'd all be grateful. Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org On 11/11/2014, at 7:13 am, Joseph FreeTech <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Not true. This issue doesn't appear to be entirely a VoiceOver limitation but one most likely having to do with software developer. As I've written before, the Google Sheets app can convey various text attributes such as bold, italics, underlined, font, font size, etc--I'm listening to these attributes right now. Joseph ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Mosen" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > To: <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Microsoft Office Apps Now Individually Available Hi Eileen. I agree. Microsoft has done an outstanding job in terms of the accessibility of these apps, but now we're up against the limitations of VoiceOver for iOS, in that there's o way to query the formatting, attributes etc, of text you're working with. Given that the iWork suite is also a pretty good experience, I hope Apple addresses these issues for VoiceOver in iOS 9. The best hope we have of that happening is to request it of Apple Accessibility. Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org On 8/11/2014, at 6:14 am, Eileen Misrahi <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Richard, I'm curious on what you find. I was able to select the attribute in the list, but there was no method to know that it was inserted into the doc. The 2 Items I tried were bullets and heading style 1 in the free version. That's why I posted in the first place. Thanks and I look forward to your next post regarding MS Word. Eileen Sent from my iPhone On Nov 7, 2014, at 6:53 AM, Richard Turner <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: The options for bold and all that seem to show up in the free version, but I have not had time to see if they actually work. I'd suggest trying them and see what happens. It looks like most of the basic formatting is included. As for Outlook, it is available with the Office 365 subscription. I think the sbuscriptions start at $9.95 per month, (there might be a discount if you buy by the year) so unless someone is a real power user of the office products, and don't mind spending around $100 per year for the privilege, they should go for it. Richard -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eileen Misrahi Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 6:36 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office Apps Now Individually Available Hello, In response to using Outlook, it's a matter of its value to the user and for how long one has been familiar with the software. It's all a matter of preference. On another note, I started dabbling with the MS Word app on my phone. My question to the list is: In order to use various attributes in Word such as heading styles, bullets, bold, underline, and etc. Does one need a 365 account? I use a tremendous amount of markup when creating training materials and documents for work, but if the free app can take care of it that would be sweet. I'm not opposed to purchasing the product, but if I can get by for free this time, it would be great. Thanks. Best, Eileen Sent from my iPhone On Nov 7, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: I would agree the native Mail app is pretty good. I've experimented with a few different mail apps on IOS and Android, and nothing really comes close. That being said, there are a lot of apps out there for a reason. Not every app is to everyone's taste, and I can see where an Outlook app might have some features that would appeal to someone that wouldn't be in the native Mail app on the iPhone. On 11/07/2014 01:42 AM, Christopher Hallsworth wrote: Sorry but I have to agree here! Mail is the one and only app I would use under iOS, not because it's packed full of features and of course totally accessible; it's also built into the operating system! On 07/11/2014 04:58, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: As far as I know there is no Outlook for iOS. I also don’t see any need for it since the native Mail app is fantastic and I wish Outlook had some of its features. Regards, Sieghard From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Hank Smith, and Seeing-eye dog Iona Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 12:54 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office Apps Now Individually Available do they have a outlook app only or is it just word excel and the like? On 11/6/2014 1:52 PM, Alan Lemly wrote: I was checking through my Apps Store updates today and noticed that the Office Mobile app stated that the individual applications were now available. When selecting update, I was taken to a screen where I could download Excel, Word, and PowerPoint separately. Each app provides access to files on Dropbox and allows editing as well when the user has a Microsoft account. I did not sign up for it but a premium service is also available. I'm not a fan of editing Office documents on my phone and prefer to use my computer for this but I know several who are interested in doing so. I will say that I opened both Excel and Word files using these new separate apps and was very impressed with their accessibility and how easy reading my files seemed to be especially with Excel. I'm sure others will weigh in with comments on these Office apps as they put them through their paces. Alan Lemly -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. 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