Jim Bohnsack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > This falls in the realm of a "religious" argument. 25 years ago, I > heard the same arguments in IBM. I also remember discussions on: > > EDGAR vs. XEDIT > EXEC2 vs. REXX > ISPF vs. CMS > SPF editor vs. XEDIT > right-left scrolling of a window (should the outside frame go right > or left or the inside content go right or left) PFK 4/5 vs. PFK 8/7 > (or was it 7/8--no it was 8/7) the REXX function CENTRE vs CENTER > (Mike solved it by giving us both) > > Jim
there was edgar battle against red and ned (red and ned were never released) ... they were about co-equal in time with edgar ... which predated xedit work by a number of years. one of the edgar arguments was the up/down commands. the frame of reference for edgar was the program ... the metaphor is the file is a scroll and the screen is a window on the scroll; the edgar up/down was with respect to the program pulling the scroll up/down i.e. "up" met moving the scroll "up" (moving window towards the bottom of the file) and "down" met moving the scroll "down" (i.e. moving window towards the top of the file). the others had a human frame of reference ... rather than the program frame of reference ... the windows were an extension of the eyes ... where moving "up" met moving the window up (moving towards the top of the file). the red&ned arguments vis-a-vis xedit were because both red&ned had extensive scripting and macro capabilities (which edgar lacked) and were a number of years more mature than xedit (while xavier was in endicott vm group while both red & ned were developed by individuals at different internal datacenters). someplace, i might even have stuff from the period on the red/ned/xedit discussions. one of the big ISPF difficulties (shared by some number of other well known mvs software products) was the difficulty in transitioning from free software to priced software ... and the ground rules for calculating price based on true internal costs vis-a-vis market forcast. for some topic drift ... collected posts on the resource manager being the first kernel priced software (and other posts related to transition to priced software after the unbundling announcement on 6/23/69) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#unbundle the really big cms battles were with the vspc/pco group; misc. past posts mentioning vspc/pco. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#49 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercompu http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#51 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#26 LISTSERV Discussion List For USS Questions? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#0 VSPC http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#4 TSS/370 source archive now available http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#47 PL/? History http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#54 Shipwrecks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#0 RISCs too close to hardware? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#17 RISCs too close to hardware? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#74 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#38 storage key question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#19 HASP/ASP JES/JES2/JES3 all sort of past posts mentioning edgar, rexx, and/or xedit: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#11 REXX http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#22 CP spooling & programming technology http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#00 old mainframes & text processing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#29 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#30 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#31 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#32 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#33 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#41 Domainatrix - the final word http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#17 Where's all the VMers? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#27 VM/SP sites that allow free access? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#14 IBM's announcement on RVAs http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#30 perceived forced conversion from cp/m to ms-dos in late 80's http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#60 Estimate JCL overhead http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#10 5-player Spacewar? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#8 VM: checking some myths. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#76 Other oddball IBM System 360's ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#1 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#17 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#18 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#22 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#26 Help needed on conversion from VM to OS390 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#35 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#44 3270 protocol http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#46 3270 protocol http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#22 When did full-screen come to VM/370? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#33 XEDIT on MVS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#38 CMS under MVS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#43 FA: Early IBM Software and Reference Manuals http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#11 OCO http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#26 Open Architectures ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#36 Movies with source code (was Re: Movies with DEC minis) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#45 REXX and its designer (was: IBM 7090 instruction set) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#29 Computers in Science Fiction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#27 Security Issues of using Internet Banking http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#57 Amiga Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#58 Amiga Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#59 Amiga Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#60 Amiga Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#35 Computers in Science Fiction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#58 history of CMS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#3 HONE, Aid, misc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#83 Summary: Robots of Doom http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#85 Summary: Robots of Doom http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#9 Avoiding JCL Space Abends http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#18 Unbelievable http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#38 GOTOs cross-posting http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#52 Dump Annalysis http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#39 Moore law http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#24 Original K & R C Compilers http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#71 bps loader, was PLX http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#51 E-mail from the OS-390 ???? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#2 IBM OS source code http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#39 20th anniversary of the internet (fwd) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#62 Card Columns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#19 Card Columns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#45 hyperblock drift, was filesystem structure (long warning) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#43 Early attempts at console humor? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#75 The relational model and relational algebra - why did SQL become the industry standard? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#78 The relational model and relational algebra - why did SQL become the industry standard? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#22 Which Editor http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#25 Which Editor http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#29 MP cost effectiveness http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#75 History of project maintenance tools -- what and when? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#3 Alpha performance, why? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#4 Alpha performance, why? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#46 death of Edgar F. (Ted) Codd http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#52 Mercury News 04-20-2003 Computer pioneer, dead at 79, http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#67 death of Edgar F. (Ted) Codd http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#58 assembler performance superiority: a given http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#2 Rexx vs. Batch http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#63 SPXTAPE status from REXX http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#14 Seven of Nine http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#23 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#30 A POX on you, Dennis Ritchie!!! http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#33 A POX on you, Dennis Ritchie!!! http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#2 Oldest running code http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#9 TSS/370 binary distribution now available http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#34 Playing games in mainframe http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#35 Computer-oriented license plates http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#61 IBM 360 memory http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#17 REXX still going strong after 25 years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#19 REXX still going strong after 25 years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#20 REXX still going strong after 25 years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#21 REXX still going strong after 25 years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#26 REXX still going strong after 25 years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#41 REXX still going strong after 25 years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#42 REXX still going strong after 25 years http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#10 What is the truth ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#35 The attack of the killer mainframes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#37 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#42 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic constants] http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#47 PL/? History http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#49 Adventure game (was:PL/? History (was Hercules)) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#10 Possibly stupid question for you IBM mainframers... :-) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#39 SEC Tests Technology to Speed Accounting Analysis http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#34 August 23, 1957 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#33 Shipwrecks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#35 Shipwrecks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#47 IBM Open Sources Object Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#53 4GHz is the glass ceiling? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#54 Shipwrecks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#12 some recent archeological threads in ibm-main, comp.arch, & alt.folklore.computers ... fyi http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#36 Integer types for 128-bit addressing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#57 Integer types for 128-bit addressing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#3 History of C http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#63 creat http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#8 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#45 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005c.html#50 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#72 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#74 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#0 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#14 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#15 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#34 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#13 Today's mainframe--anything to new? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#37 Software for IBM 360/30 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#41 Systems Programming for 8 Year-olds http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#42 Systems Programming for 8 Year-olds http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#43 Systems Programming for 8 Year-olds http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#41 TSO replacement? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#58 Q ALLOC PAGE vs. CP Q ALLOC vs ESAMAP http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#36 Code density and performance? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#45 Anyone know whether VM/370 EDGAR is still available anywhere? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#47 Anyone know whether VM/370 EDGAR is still available anywhere? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#38 SHARE reflections http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#1 Intel engineer discusses their dual-core design http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#19 address space http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#12 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#29 Job seperators http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#28 MVCIN instruction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#50 Various kinds of System reloads -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
