10 for effort there spinmiester, self-appointed physics expert who do not
have a physics degree or any degree for that matter; and now self-appointed
arabic etymology expert.
I can see that you've taken up Wikipedia as your authoritative research
material. When I said, "study" I did not mean wikipedia. LOL....
Now on to correcting your disinformation again. Tell me one thing
spinmiester, what is the name of the moon god of muhammed's bebuin tribe.
Anybody can find that out from multiple non-Christian sources. If you
believe this spinmeister's spin, you only have yourself to blame for being
ignorant. Al-Ilyah or al-ilah or allah never was and still is not the same
as the Universal Jewish God or Christian God. Allah has always been the
second rate moon god of muhammed's tribe aspiring to be like the Most High
God. Study it up. (I mean study, not wikipedia. LOL...)
Now to your spinning of the definition of marriage. Marriage is an
institution started by the Jewish God. Hence, we need to study how God
defines a marriage and a "wife". Not some spin from the moon god bible.
Gen 24 contains the definition of what constitutes a wife. Look at verse
67.
"And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and
she became his wife; and he loved her; and Isaac was comforted after his
mother's death."
You will notice that there was no ceremony or anything to make Rebekah
Isaac's wife. The mere act of taking her into his tent (his bed) and
"knowing" her (sex) automatically made Rebekah his wife. What this means my
friends, is that every woman you've ever had sex with is considered in God's
eyes to be your wife. And this includes all the sex toys concubines of
muhammed whether there was a ceremony or not; they were all "wives". You
need to study the truth instead of some disinformation. So, my friends,
muhammed did have "dozens of wives" and I spoke the truth. And to find out
how many dozens, look it up yourself and have fun finding out the truth.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:How bad is this news? Jed Rothwell -> about Jaro Jaro
trolling
At 04:00 PM 12/5/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
A simple study that anyone can undertake will clearly reveal that Al-Ilyah
is the name of the moon god of muhammed's bediun tribe.
Well, I'd only seen this idea coming from wing nuts, but I took a look.
First of all, the idea is that the "Al-Ilyah" was elided to "Allah." From
my knowledge of Arabic, that's very unlikely, especially given the easy
elision from al-ilah, which would be pronounced almost exactly like Allah,
and, in fact, the middle ll of Allah has a special pronunciation that
emphasizes it, it's called "lam jalalah," strong-L. It's a pretty clear
sign of the elided short vowel i., leading to a doubled L.
Yah, though, the "y," isn't going to disappear like that. It is strongly
pronounced. To English speakers, we think of the y being pronounced with a
short "i," but it's a letter of emphasis, and would be pronounced long,
al-ileeyah, most likely.
Anyway, I looked up the word in Lane's Lexicon, which is thorough about
classical Arabic. alyah (or "ilyah", that initial vowel can vary) means
"buttock" or "rump" or "posterior."
No cheese down that rathole. The spelling as "Al-Ilyah" may be
idiosyncratic.
so I looked up the word. I found a Wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah_as_Moon-god
Yeah. "A claim put forth by some Evangelical Christian groups." Not
terribly surprising, eh?
Well, some obvious implications. As the Wikipedia article points out,
"Allah" can be read as "al-ilah," and I suggest that the reverse is
actually the etymology of "Allah." The more-or-less official position is
that "Allah" is a name, and the etymology of names is not terribly
relevant, it's actual usage that counts. Anyone who is worshipping some
"god" and believes that this is the only god, or the main god, or the
important god, may refer to this god using the definite article, "the"
god. I.e., "al-ilah." Al- is the definite article.
So is it possible that moon-worshippers called their god "al-ilah"? Of
course it is! But so would the worshippers of any god, or the One God.
The writer here consistently, believes that his highly idiosyncratic
theories are "proven," that anyone who studies will, of course, agree with
him, so Right is he, in more ways than one. Obama, of course, is not an
American citizen, there is a massive conspiracy to cover up his true birth
circumstances, and, I'm sure, I could go on and on, but *I have not been
reading Jaro Jaro for a long time.*
I found no even reasonably credible sources proposing "Al-Ilyah" as a
name. What seems credible is "Al-ilah," in fact. That *might* have been
applied to the Moon god, or to any god. To really address this would
require expertise; it's claimed that old inscriptions, pre-Islamic, used
ALLH, i.e., the way Allah is written without vowels. The truth, I don't
know.
He wanted to unify the various arab tribes, so he promoted his moon god
as the equivalent of the Jewish God. When islam became widespread, the
word allah was then used synomymously with GOD. That is why Christian
arabs today use the generic word allah to mean God. In the beginning,
allah or al-ilyah has always been the moon god of muhammed's tribe, not
the universal Jewish God, or the Christian God. Stop lying to the
uninitiated in this forum.
And anyone who suggests that there might be some truth to the *widely
established and practically universal opinion among scholars, Muslims, and
Christians who speak Arabic,* is a "liar."
He's insane or simply trolling. He says that he will meet bias with bias,
so maybe he doesn't believe what he writes. But it doesn't matter. He's
trolling, as to effect. If he actually believes what he writes, he's
insane.
As for your second spin; let me get this straight. Muhammed married a
dozen women after his first wife died but for some twisted reason, they
are not considered "wives".
No, I didn't say that. They were wives. They were open, declared
marriages. Jaro doesn't know how to read.
You are actually arguing that these dozen women he took were not his
wives? Have I not spoken the truth when I said Muhammend had dozens of
wives.
No, not the truth. He had one wife, she died, and then he, ultimately, had
a dozen more. Not "dozens." If someone marries multiple women, after death
or divorce, we do not say, in English, that this person had multiple
wives, unless they were wives at the same time. So he had a dozen,
probably at the most (were they all alive at the same time, I don't know),
and I used the total count in Wikipedia, I don't know if that's
authoritative.
As to what Jaro Jaro goes on to mention, possible "concubinage," which
involves slaves, not wives, I'm not entering that debate. We were talking
about wives, which means known, publicly established, socially-recognized
relationships, it would not include relationships with women in other
categories. There will be no end if I track down every one of Jaro Jaro's
shotgun threads.
(by the way, he did have dozens of women which we today would
justifiably call wives, may they be ceremonial wives, or just plain
concubines. They're both considered wives by definition. )
No, a concubine is not a wife, by any definition. If one marries a
concubine, she is no longer a concubine, she has marriage rights, dowry,
etc. And I don't recall any concubines for Muhammad, but many weak
traditions were later made up to justify existing practices. The Qur'an
would appear to forbid concubinage ("marry them"), but this, again, could
become very complex. No evidence was asserted for dozens, Jaro Jaro does
not cite evidence, he just tosses up quick claims intending to offend.
Classic trolling.
So you say "so what?" So what if he did have dozens of wives? OK then.
That simply tells me where your morality is. The real God Jesus Christ
said ...
Al-ilah said?
