At 09:27 PM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything
related to previous and current presidents.
No. Not only do I not undertand it that way, nobody who has any clue
about law and authority and juridiction doesn't understand that. It
does not cover his listing in phone books. It does not cover
*anything relating to his life before becoming President." It only
covers exactly what it says it covers: Presidential Records in the
custody of the National Archivist.
Anything about this current president is covered by this order.
Like these posts? Like his driver's license? *Those are not
*Presidential Records.* That terms has a very specific meaning,
defined in the Order.
IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they
have to go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru
the Presidential counsel; for approval.
No, that's not true. I was about to say it was, but I re-read it. I
mean, what an idiot! Information about Obama's BC is routinely
"released." We've done it here. No, what is true is that to gain
access to private records, which include birth certificates, hospital
records, school records, and the like, the permission of the
individual involved must be obtained, which could include someone
with a power of attorney. This has *nothing to do with the Executive
Order, it is explicitly and specificaly not about those
non-Presidential Records. Presidential Records are not just anything
about the President, they are documents created within the Presidency
by the President, in his capacity as President. It's defined in the Order:
"Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials
maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act,
including Vice Presidential records.
The documents Jojo refers to are not "maintained by NARA." Period.
This is *really* stupid, obtuse beyond belief.
This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and
people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies
are OK for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate
usurper muslim president.
We see right here that Jojo's arguments are totally corrupt, divorced
from basic reality, clearly, as we can see with no research other
than what's included in this mail, the Executive Order itself. Jojo
has simply repeated his claim, ignoring the Order that he himself
provided as evidence.
There is nothing that connects the order to his *birth certificate*,
and even if he were so stupid as to issue an Executive Order to
attempt to control documents held and controlled under Hawaiian law,
Hawaiian officials would ignore him.
No, you cannot just walk in and access records that are protected
under the law, but that protection has nothing to do with the
Executive Order. Sheriff Arpaio's investigators -- operating
privately, but apparently misrepresenting themselves as the "police,"
-- tried to do that. They were tossed out. That has zilch to do with
this Order, and Jojo keeps tossing smoke bombs to conceal the fact
that he *lied.*
The issue here is not the alleged corruption of Obama. The issue is
not whether Obama should bend even further backwards to satisfy the
"birthers," when Jojo is showing that he, anyway, won't be satisfied
No Matter What. The issue is in the subject title, which Jojo
created. He left out the [OT] tag when he created the thread, I just added it.
"Birther Myth? or Lomax lies"
Jojo said that there was an Executive Order that prevents the release
of the birth certificate. He didn't make that up, it is a common
claim among birthers. It's a "Birther Myth." I didn't know for sure
that Jojo was referring to this partcular Executive Order, but
eventually I concluded that there wasn't any other. Jojo keeps
claiming that I'm lying. I return the favor, but ... he's lying, and
it can be seen here. When one lies in the presence of conclusive
evidence, the possible excuse of "I just didn't realize" disappears.
Jojo is lying.
He's lying because he is attempting to deceive and repeating
deceptions long after any possible reasonable excuse. It appears that
he won't even read the evidence he himself presented. It's an
Executivee Order, and it talks about Presidential Records. Obama is
President, and a Birth Certificate is a Record, and, Q.E.D., the BC
is a Presidentital Record, right? No. Wrong. The Order defines
Presidential Records, and they have absolutely nothing to do with
anyone's Birth Certificate, not his, not Bush's, not Clintons, etc.
no more original content below. The Executive Order is there, though.
Jojo
----- Original Message ----- From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately
after he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush
Executive Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order
to specifically require his approval before release of any
information, obstensively because of "Executive Privelege".
Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly.
"Release of any information." Sure. "Any information" of what type,
where located, and by whom?
Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What
exactly have you debunked? .... you blatant liar.
No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what
you claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular*
Exectuive Order did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically.
[...]
Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies
you'll come up next.
You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning.
You have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to
create a dramatic image. That's "spin." But I'll give you a fair chance here.
You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks
access to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote,
to which you are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, "If he
fails to apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he
claimed, he is, effectively, a liar."
Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document
to apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's
all here right in front of us, no more research should be necessary.
But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive
Order that blocks public access to the "vault" birth certificate.
That access is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records
(as is true, I think, in all states). Some access to records is
blocked by HIPAA, a federal law relating to the privacy of medical
records, and there are other laws protecting the privacy of certain
records, but no relevant Executive Order that does what Jojo claims.
He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn.
THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release January 21, 2009
EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - -
PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and
the laws of the United States of America, and in order to
establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of
executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in
connection with the release of Presidential records by the
National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to
the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as
follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order:
(a) "Archivist" refers to the Archivist of the United States or
his designee. (b) "NARA" refers to the National Archives and
Records Administration.
(c) "Presidential Records Act" refers to the Presidential Records
Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207.
(d) "NARA regulations" refers to the NARA regulations implementing
the Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270.
(e) "Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials
maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act,
including Vice Presidential records.
(f) "Former President" refers to the former President during whose
term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created.
(g) A "substantial question of executive privilege" exists if
NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair national
security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law
enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the executive branch.
(h) A "final court order" is a court order from which no appeal
may be taken.
Sec. 2. Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. (a)
When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former
Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant
to section 1270.46 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist, using
any guidelines provided by the incumbent and former Presidents,
shall identify any specific materials, the disclosure of which he
believes may raise a substantial question of executive privilege.
However, nothing in this order is intended to affect the right of
the incumbent or former Presidents to invoke executive privilege
with respect to materials not identified by the Archivist. Copies
of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to
the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the
Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the
Office of Legal Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former
President shall be delivered to the former President or his
designated representative. (b) Upon the passage of 30 days after
receipt by the incumbent and former Presidents of a notice of
intent to disclose Presidential records, the Archivist may
disclose the records covered by the notice, unless during that
time period the Archivist has received a claim of executive
privilege by the incumbent or former President or the Archivist
has been instructed by the incumbent President or his designee to
extend the time period for a time certain and with reason for the
extension of time provided in the notice. If a shorter period of
time is required under the circumstances set forth in section
1270.44 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist shall so indicate in the notice.
Sec. 3. Claim of Executive Privilege by Incumbent President. (a)
Upon receipt of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential
records, the Attorney General (directly or through the Assistant
Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel) and the Counsel
to the President shall review as they deem appropriate the records
covered by the notice and consult with each other, the Archivist,
and such other executive agencies as they deem appropriate
concerning whether invocation of executive privilege is justified.
(b) The Attorney General and the Counsel to the President, in the
exercise of their discretion and after appropriate review and
consultation under subsection (a) of this section, may jointly
determine that invocation of executive privilege is not justified.
The Archivist shall be notified promptly of any such determination.
(c) If either the Attorney General or the Counsel to the President
believes that the circumstances justify invocation of executive
privilege, the issue shall be presented to the President by the
Counsel to the President and the Attorney General.
(d) If the President decides to invoke executive privilege, the
Counsel to the President shall notify the former President, the
Archivist, and the Attorney General in writing of the claim of
privilege and the specific Presidential records to which it
relates. After receiving such notice, the Archivist shall not
disclose the privileged records unless directed to do so by an
incumbent President or by a final court order.
Sec. 4. Claim of Executive Privilege by Former President. (a) Upon
receipt of a claim of executive privilege by a living former
President, the Archivist shall consult with the Attorney General
(through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal
Counsel), the Counsel to the President, and such other executive
agencies as the Archivist deems appropriate concerning the
Archivist's determination as to whether to honor the former
President's claim of privilege or instead to disclose the
Presidential records notwithstanding the claim of privilege. Any
determination under section 3 of this order that executive
privilege shall not be invoked by the incumbent President shall
not prejudice the Archivist's determination with respect to the
former President's claim of privilege.
(b) In making the determination referred to in subsection (a) of
this section, the Archivist shall abide by any instructions given
him by the incumbent President or his designee unless otherwise
directed by a final court order. The Archivist shall notify the
incumbent and former Presidents of his determination at least 30
days prior to disclosure of the Presidential records, unless a
shorter time period is required in the circumstances set forth in
section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations. Copies of the notice for
the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President
(through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General
(through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal
Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former President shall be
delivered to the former President or his designated representative.
Sec. 5. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be
construed to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) authority granted by law to a department or agency, or the
head thereof; or (ii) functions of the Director of the Office of
Management and Budget relating to budget, administrative, or
legislative proposals.
(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law
and subject to the availability of appropriations. (c) This order
is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit,
substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any
party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or
entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
Sec. 6. Revocation. Executive Order 13233 of November 1, 2001, is revoked.
BARACK OBAMA
THE WHITE HOUSE, January 21, 2009.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax"
<[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
Conclusion, there is no such Executive Order. It appears that
Jojo Jaro believes birther myths, long after they have been
conclusively and with evidence debunked. If he fails to
apologize, or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he
is, effectively, a liar.
Notice, the above is in reference to what was said below. Jojo
doesn't actually read what he responds to. It was a reference to an
"Executive Order to block access" to "vault records," i.e., the
Hawaiian vault copy of the original long form certificate.
[...]
At 02:24 PM 12/26/2012, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
At 01:07 AM 12/26/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Funny thing is, the new governor of Hawaii Ambercrombie - a
democrat, strong supporter of Obama, wanted to silence the
birther movement once and for all. So, he sought to dig into
Obama's vault BC. Guess what? Even he can't penetrate the veil
of corruption Obama has put up to block access to his vault
records. Why is there an executive order to block access to Obama's vault BC.
Fascinating. Is there such an Executive Order? That would be
quite odd. Legally, the President has no authority over Hawaiian
officials, unless a federal issue could be shown. and this would not qualify.
Jojo went on to repeat the Executive Order claim that Obama is
preventing access to the vault certificate. Is that true? Is
there an "Executive Order to block access."
What can be found on this?
and then I went into detail, with links....
