OK, since you asked. Don't say I am trolling.
There is reason to believe that fallen angels are trying to breed with
humans to create a hybrid race. The Bible called these hybrids Nephilims.
They were universal during the days of Noah. They interbred with human women
to give birth to giant hybrids - Hercules, Persues, Atlas etc. They
interbreed with normal animal to give birth to hideous dinasaurs and
loathsome creatures. This was the primary reason why God had to wipe out
the entire race of life on Earth with a global flood. Fallen angels and
demons wanted to subvert the plan of God by corrupting man. If human DNA
are all tainted with demonic DNA, the messiah, which has to come as a man
(pure human) can not come. They would have effectively thwarted God's plan
for redemption.
The recent spate of UFO activity and the more blatant abduction of women
seems to support this speculation. In almost all UFO abduction experience,
what is the most common theme that these abductees are experiencing? It
almost always has to do with the human reproductive system. Women's eggs
are removed, men's sperms are collected, women are impregnated, etc. If
these were truly biological beings - as in ET, why the preoccupation with
the reproductive system .
When we study lower lifeforms, are we preoccupied with how they reproduce?
Yes, we study their reproduction but we also study their other systems.
This is the normal behavior of a curious higher being studying a lower
lifeform. But these UFO's are almost always studying human reproductive
systems. Curious.
There is reason to believe that these malevolent spiritual entities are
trying to breed a super race of humans. Abduction have been going on for
thousands of years and it is reasonable to speculate that they have
successfully breed hybrids almost indistinguishable from normal humans.
These hybrids have now risen to power worldwide and have infiltrated all of
our institutions. These hybrids are the powers behind the Illuminati. So
powerful and so entrenched are these hybrids that even presidents fear
crossing them. They sent a clear lesson to all future presidents when they
assasinated JFK. These illuminata satan worshippers and their hybrid
handlers are the shadow government parasites bleeding our society dry.
No one can oppose these hybrids. They can drive you mad with a thought -
telepaths or they can squeeze your heart - Telekenetic. You can not oppose
TEPs and TEKs. Only God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is holding
them at bay. When the Holy Spirit is removed from this Earth at the Rapture
of Christians, the floodgates of hell will literally open and these demonic
hybrids will consume all life.
This my friends is what you are looking forward to if you are not a saved
believer.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From: "de Bivort Lawrence" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
Jojo: "However, if you want speculation, I have some other speculations
about who these people are."
I am curious. Please elaborate.
On Dec 26, 2012, at 8:38 PM, Jojo Jaro wrote:
The Illuminati satanic occultic pagan group of powerful men and bankers
behind everything in our society, including the President, Congress,
Supreme Court, Federal Reserve, the Smithsonian and other institutions.
The Illuminati is the shadow government that FDR was alluding to and the
reason JFK was assasinated. He spoke too much when he called for the
dissolution of "secret" societies.
This above is not speculation.
However, if you want speculation, I have some other speculations about who
these people are.
Jojo
----- Original Message ----- From: "de Bivort Lawrence"
<[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
"illimiati?
On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Lomax is lying again. I'm not surprised. It is OK for him to lie as
long as his goal are "honorable" and good for islam and muhammed.
OK, let me ask anybody here. Who has actually seen Obama's Birth
Certificate in actuality? Not the scanned and altered copy posted on the
Internet. Not snopes which is a political hack job. If Obama supposedly
was issued an official Birth Certificate by the State of Hawaii as Lomax
claims, that originally issued BC should be in the possesion of Obama,
right? OK, if Obama wants to kill the Birther movement, just show it to
one, only one, highly respected individual. Let's say, Ron Paul, Mike
Huckabee, Sarah Palin or the like. Just one well respected Tea Party
member or a well respected Republican congressman or senator. Let him
handle that original BC, feel the official seal, look at the folds, and
make an official scan open to the public and call an open honest press
conference. Not a white house press conference which is questionable to
begin with. This is very simple and the Birther movement will die an
untimely death and I will apologize and tuck my tail between my legs in
shame and go away. Lomax lies when he says we have seen the official BC.
We have not; no one has. What we've seen which Lomax claims is the
official BC is a scanned photoshop file. No one except Obama and
alledgedly snopes have seen it. Why? Is anybody buying Lomax's
argument? It's very simple my friends, if there is an officially issued
BC, complete with seal, and signature of the official representative of
the State of Hawaii, just show it. No amount of spin or eloquence or
tiresome lengthy essay will overcome this very strong argument. Just show
it. Period.
Funny thing is, the new governor of Hawaii Ambercrombie - a democrat,
strong supporter of Obama, wanted to silence the birther movement once
and for all. So, he sought to dig into Obama's vault BC. Guess what?
Even he can't penetrate the veil of corruption Obama has put up to block
access to his vault records. Why is there an executive order to block
access to Obama's vault BC. This is the first time it has ever happened
to a sitting president. What the heck is wrong with seeing the original
vault copy BC? If he has alledgedly issued an official copy, what's wrong
with verifying it with the vault copy? Why does Obama feel the need to
go out of his way to issue an executive order to block access?
You know, only corrupt and lying leaders find the need to hide their
history. Obama is a corrupt lying usurper.
And Lomax's is really naive to think that only Republicans are concerned
with this issue. Over 60% of Americans feel Obama should come clean on
this issue. But of course, the illiminati finds it convenient to
forcibly reintall their puppet president. And they have found willing
sheeple in Lomax. LOL......
Jojo
----- Original Message ----- From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax"
<[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
At 11:15 AM 12/25/2012, David Roberson wrote:
The recent intense concentration upon religious issues is not very
useful for several reasons. It is apparent that you have a strong
Christian faith and that others within this group favor the Muslim
faith to an equally strong degree.
David is addressing this to Jojo. However, there is a difference here.
I'm the only Muslim on this list, as far as I know. And I have not used
the list to propagandize Islam. But Jojo has used the list to
propagandize a whole series of issues that are not actually Christian,
per se, but specifically Evangelical Christian tropes, intensely
anti-Muslim, in ways that have offended other list members, apparently
non-Muslim. These are not necessirly "favoring the Muslim faith,"
rather, they are, first, noting the inappropriateness of such highly
sectarian and abusive expressions here, and, secondly, supporting a list
member who is a relatively long-time participant here, who has never
used the list to promote Islam.
The anti-Muslim material was completely off-topic, not necessary for any
discussion here, on-topic or off-topic, except to establish Jojo Jaro's
thesis, that I'm a liar, and to him, "Muslim" means "liar." The real
thing that is happening is that he argued other topics, like the whole
birther myth, kept up an anti-Obama drumbeat, and on the birther issue,
specifically, I researched his claims and reported them as being utterly
bogus. Not as a prejudgment, but as the result of research. And he could
not tolerate that, and, I believe, that's where his attack came from.
Essentially, I disagreed with him and provided evidence. That's
intolerable to him, so he then attacked with everything he could muster.
This in itself is a good thing and I say nothing against the religious
beliefs of you or anyone else. The world has enough conflict over
religion already and it is of little practical use for us to continue
that tradition here.
I"d agree, which is why I'd never have brought any of these issues here.
There is nothing wrong with Christian faith, per se, and I certainly
hope I've never attacked it. Evangelical Anti-Muslim diatribes are not
"Christian faith," they are highly political and very modern
interpretations, and often are highly offensive. (I do *not* want to
impeach all "Evangelical Christians," only there are web sites that
pander to the most ignorant of Christians, selling them books and
materials that make these claims about Islam, claims that are highly
ineffective in actual evangelical work, i.e., missionary work. Converts
from Islam to Christianity are rare, but I knew one. He'd have laughed
at the silliness of this stuff. He converted, more or less, as a
reaction to a highly abusive father, and, when I had dinner with him at
his house, and told him a bit of what I knew about Islam and the
sources, he said, "If you'd have been my father, I'd never have
converted."
I.e., it was very personal. And the views of his father aren't that
uncommon among Muslims. Which goes to show?
It goes to show, in fact, what the Qur'an says, that people claim
religion without having it. We, too often, too many of us, cling to our
ignorance instead of to God.
As I said, neither side to this argument appears to be capable of
giving an inch toward a common resolution. For this reason, all I see
within the arguments presented is a repetition of the same disgusting
issues. Why waste so much energy toward this type of discussion when it
is known ahead of time that nothing will change?
Actually, I see more. Researching these issues has clarified certain
issues for me. It's like the birther thing. It seemed unlikely from the
outset, after all, don't the Republicans have, ah, attornies and the
like? A birth certificate conspiracy would require a series of state
officials to perjure themselves, etc. But, hey, I accept that cold
fusion is real, which indicates that sometimes pigs fly. I.e., something
we expect is impossible turns out to be possible. But my acceptance of
cold fusion is based on evidence, not on wishful thinking, and not on
mere assertion, nor on interpretation of isolated, selected evidence.
So I gave Jojo Jaro the benefit of the doubt, and looked up his claims.
Quite simply, they were highly misleading. Jojo stil repeats the demand
that Obama "show the archival certificate." He doesn't mention that
Obama actually has done this. Hawaii does not issue the archival
certificate routinely. What it issues is a birth certificate, created by
computer, from files where the legal information is recorded. The
signatures of the attending physician, and other legally inconsequential
information, are not on it. Obama had previously requested a certificate
from Hawaii, and had shown it, and that routine certificate is adequate
for all legal purposes. It's the certification of the State of Hawaii
that the birth took place as described, as shown by the archival
certificate, which is kept guarded, that's why it is not routinely
accessed.
After birthers repeatedly demanded that the archival certificate be
shown, Obama eventually requested, and got, a copy of the Archival
certificate. I believe that this required the permission of the
Secretary of State of Hawaii. You normally have to show cause for such.
In any case, the State made a copy, and it was certified by an official
as a true copy. Which is under penalty of perjury, by the way. That copy
was sent to Obama, and it was released in a press conference. That is,
the certified copy was shown to reporters, and images of it were
provided, and an image was released on the internet.
Things got really interesting, then, and for a moment, before I really
grasped the whole history and the implications, it had me going. Because
it looked like evidence existed that the copy released on the internet
was *forged.* I mean, it *really looked like that.* But I kept reading,
and I found the explanation, and I know enough about file structures and
formats to know that the explanation was valid. And then we were back to
the fact that if the archival copy were actually forged, we'd have to
have not just one official, but a few, lying under penalty of perjury.
And we'd also have the birth record information from Hawaaian newspapers
and the rest, consistent with the released birth certificates.
The birthers came up with all kinds of "how come" arguments. Supposed
anachronisms, and all turned out to be highly misleading.
And this is quite relevant to what happens with arguments over cold
fusion or free energy research. People get into a fixed position and
interpret evidence, selectively, according to what they believe.
Certainly the mainstream physics community did this after 1989, with
cold fusion. But it's done by many, on all sides.
It's not true that "nothing will change." Because *I* change, and others
can follow me if they want. I learned about the whole birther movement,
I now understand it, what fueled it, what evidence kept them going, all
that. And also precisely where they went astray. I didn't know any of
this before.
Now, with most of the issues Jojo raised about Islam -- and he raises
them, I don't, for the most part -- I've discussed most of them before,
because I was highly active in Usenet discussions, more than a decade
ago. I don't recall the Moon God trope then, though. Certainly the
claims about prophetic pedophilia are old, female circumcision has been
a popular topic, and the accusation that cutting off the hands of
thieves is "barbaric" is likewise old. I really don't have an axe to
grind on any of these, because my God is Reality, not Muhammad.
Indeed, if evidence were to surface that the Qur'an was written by a
nine-year old girl (Ayesha?), a tad precious, but *the manuscript is
found, it carbon dates properly, and it is signed, etc.*, *it would not
change my faith at all.* So what? If she wrote it, she did a damn good
job!
The Qur'an describes itself as a "story," and then "the best of
stories." What's a story?
Most of the off topic subjects do not result in the amount of conflict
that is seen within the religious type. As you have noted, there has
been awful and unwarranted name calling engaged in and insults which I
find offensive. I would not object if you or anyone else suggests an
off topic subject that encourages discussions as long as they do not
result in that sort of behavior and they were at least related to
science. You will find me objecting if these unrelated threads begin
to become too long or cause serious personal attacks. The recent
discussions concerning global warming came close to that threshold due
to the sometimes heated exchanges that resulted from what some perceive
as a world endangering situation. I can understand the passion since
there are some convinced that the fate of the world is in the balance
unless something is done quickly. Of course you and I fall on the same
side of this issue where we seek reasonable, cautious, and thoughtful
preparation.
That's not Jojo's position. That's what I suspect you *want* to be
Jojo's position.
In fact, we could probably find a general consensus here on this
proposition: evidence for anthropogenic global warming is widely
accepted, but may not be conclusive. Nevertheless, the possibility of
massive harm may exist, and therefore public policy should
1. Encourage and support research to verify and more accurately predict
the effect of human activity on global climate.
2. Consider measures to reduce the impact of such activity, considering
the possible negative impact of such measures, and attempting to balance
benefit and risk.
But we don't need to debate this here. It is generally off-topic, though
not *entirely* so. The relevance is that cold fusion, in partcular, has
promise as a non-polluting technology that could, by replacing the use
of fossil fuels and dangerous fission power, address and ameliorate
global warming. Much of the mention of global warming here is in that
context.
And then Jojo pops in, calling the discussion "global warmimg
propaganda," calling the scientists who express concern "liars," and
calling list participants, on very thin evidence, "fanatics."
His behavior is the same, regardless of topic, unless it's one he really
doesn't care about at all. I makes rare comments on such things, and I
suspect that he does such only to attempt to defuse the other-wise
completely true claim that trolling is all he does here.
I am attempting to understand the nature of the religious issues that
keep this and other threads like it alive and so passionate. Do both
sides of the argument believe that they must prevail and have the last
word?
Jojo has declared that he'll keep it up, period, until everyone on the
list stops the "off-topic" posting. I was quite willing to leave the
last word to Jojo, and said so, and completely stopped responding to
him. Flat out, it did not work. I forget how long I waited, but it was
enough to see that he'd been lying. He had no intention of stopping, and
he would -- and will, if permitted -- continue to monitor the list for
any off-topic (Or on-topic) post that he thinks offends his
sensibilities. And then he'll turn that thread into a flame war.
Sure, if everyone ignores him, that won't happen. There will just be an
odd post from him. But I've watched this kind of phenomenon since the
1980s, on the internet. Trolls become expert at attracting comment.
Eventually, they figure out what buttons to push. And the list will
always have newcomers, who don't realize the situation, and they will
dive in, with exactly what the troll wants.
Is God watching the debate and pushing each side forward in a manner
that seems a little less than brotherly? For some reason I do not
believe so. Why don't both parties to this discussion realize that
they will never make headway in convincing the other side and just stop
the insanity? I find both sides equally guilty and plead for each to
abandon the discussion.
Good luck. David, you are expressing, here, a Very Bad Habit. You judge
guilt. And you do so with shallow knowledge, I suspect. I've written a
number of posts here with a detailed history of the Jojo Affair. Were
those posts inaccurate? They are not about religion, they are about the
history here, and they generally provided links to posts. If they were
unfairly chosen, perhaps cherry-picked, anyone could find that out by
checking the history themselves.
I've seen your kind of claim many, many times. I understand the
sentiment, and I sympathize. However, you are judging from a position of
ignorance, that's obvious.
Forgive me if I offended anyone as that was not my intent.
I'm not offended. I mentioned that I've seen this again and again. You
are simply human. I do not blame you, and do not consider you "guilty."
I just described what I see and understand, and I could easily be wrong.
Notice, below, that Jojo does not accept your position and demands that
you call for the "termination of all off-topic threads." There is a
reason why he demands this. Do you know what it is?
The issue, for myself and others here, is not "off-topic threads." It is
gross incivility, trolling for outraged response, a declared intention
to retaliate until others shut up, and the abuse of the list for what is
actually a corrupt form of religious and political propaganda.
"Retaliate" here means, to him, and he's again been explicit about this,
"escalate." He will say or do whatever he thinks will be as offensive as
possible. It has nothing to do with what he claims he's doing,
"answering off-topic propaganda" here. In a couple of occasions, some
comment here, off-hand, could be interpreted that way, but the whole
Moon God thing did not come from that. He brought the topic here, same
with the wives of the prophet and the matter of the Prophet's youngest
wife, Ayesha. Nobody was asserting that the Prophet was perfect, here.
He bought it all here, and you really ought to consider, if you want to
judge this matter, David, why he did this. It's quite clear, really, if
you follow the history.
But that's a lot of work. Most people won't do that. They just want the
problem to Go Away. Can't people just be nice to each other?
I get it. I've watched this for years. In person, people can be nice to
each other. In a forum where anonymity is easy, *some people will not be
nice.* It's just the way it is. I'm a real person, I use a real name,
that is, I can very personally be identified, someone who wants to do
the work can figure out where I live. Jojo Jaro is anonymous, and really
doesn't care about his reputation, etc., and that's obvious.
This is not an equal situation, David. I'm fully responsible for what I
write. Jojo thinks he's not. He thinks he can hide.
In fact, he is responsible, and he can't hide, but *that is a religious
position.* Happens to be Qur'an. I know that if I were to lie, there
would be no place I could hide from my own corruption.
(no more original content below)
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Jojo Jaro <[email protected]>
To: vortex-l <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Dec 25, 2012 4:04 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
Yes, you are right of course, but It would even be better if all
off-topic threads be terminated and brought to Vortex-B.
I am doing this is highlight a problem. If you call for the
termination of this thread, you need to call for the termination of all
off-topic threads. I believe that is only fair. For why should the
Vortex-L membership only be subjected to off-topic threads you consider
"interesting". In other words, why are you the arbiter of what
off-topic posts should be discuss or not? They are all off-topic and
should be banished from Vortex-L forever. Isn't that what I've always
asked for only to be insulted, ridiculed and ignored? No offense
intended, just asking your thinking process on this.
I consider this discussion with Lomax interesting. So, on that aspect,
this thread has as much right to be discussed in Vortex as any other
off-topic thread you consider "interesting". Or are you saying that
because you are an longer time member of Vortex-L, that you opinion
carries more weight than mine? Isn't that what the chronic off-topic
posters are essentially saying?
It's all or nothing my friend. No off-topic threads or ALL off-topic
threads allowed. Am I not being fair? Is what I'm saying unfair?
Jojo
PS, Of course, I am ready and prepared to stop all off-topic threads
that I participate in, but only if there is a corresponding commitment
from other chronis off-topic posters to moderate incessant off-topic
posts.
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[email protected]>David Roberson
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
Guys, I would very much prefer it if this thread were to be terminated.
It is apparent that there will never be agreement between the parties
involved in the dispute and highly unlikely that one or the other will
modify his beliefs. Why not just shake hands (electronically of
course) and change the subject to LENR or something else more
interesting.
I suspect that I am not the only one with this opinion.
Dave
