At 9:58 AM 2/15/5, Jones Beene wrote: >Because wind energy is becoming cheaper, but is often not available when >or where it is most needed, here is a suggestion on the best way to store >wind energy. > >Produce liquid air for a transportation fuel (i.e. energy storage medium). > >Let me repeat (as a query ) one more time for emphasis. Is there any >better way to use wind energy (in the near future) than to produce liquid >air?
Jones, *you* should post the data, and do the math. Speculation is easy, but limited in its power to convince anyone. Just because no one has the time at the moment to acquire the data and do the math for every speculation does not mean everyone agrees with them. [snip] >...compressors are much cheaper than electric generators, these wind farms >should cost less. How do you figure? Liquifaction plants aren't cheap or small. Also important is the fact that direct motion-to-hydrogen generation is possible, without generating electricity first. Electrolysis is still not a fully refined art. Since you are engaged in speculating, I'll do a bit of the same. 8^) I'll just say that electrolysis can be achieved with higher efficiency than air liquifaction. The problem remains hydrogen storage. This problem may soon be solved. Hydrogen can readily be transported by pipeline, and can be stored long term without loss to evaporation. It is a better long term energy transport solution, one that works well with wind, solar and nuclear sources, and a solution getting a lot of research money and attention currently. None of this serves to solve the real problem though, which is a *source* of energy sufficient to provide all the worlds needs long term. Ultimately, nuclear energy in the form of either fission or fusion will have to be used unless some completely new source of energy is developed. The 400 quad world demand, soon to be 500 quads, is a lot of demand, and will ultimately be a source of wars, both military and economic. Meeting the US demand short term can best be done by using every possible means, and that may well include LN2 or liquid air. However, like old windmill generation technology, LN2 or liquid air technology is very likely to be outclassed, and there is the possiblity that could happen soon. Home heating efficiency and cost can be much improved by using wells for thermal storage. Thermal wells can easily be "charged" using energy from windmills or solar, or other means. However, this doesn't help much wih air conditioning. Here is a speculation for you. Perhaps liquid air has a niche in home heating/air conditioning, if a low cost energy source is handy, like solar or wind, or cheap off hour power. The idea is to store the waste heat of liquifaction in a themal well, or in salt phase-change tanks, and simultaneously sore LN2 in underground insulated tanks. The combination of stored heat and stored cold can then be used (in Sterling engine and gas turbine) to generate electricity and/or to directly provide building air conditioning or heating. A complex plant like this is more likely to prove economically viable when used in a house than in a vehicle, and would not have the weight and size constraints associated with vehicles. A similar strategy might be used to store wind farm energy for production in peak hours, though when hydrogen storage and better electrolysis becomes available then hydrogen will become a better means of achieving this. Regards, Horace Heffner
