thomas malloy wrote:
So you maintain that life just happened? You believe that nonliving
material just became animated?
Yup. I am sure of it. You should not pretend to be surprised that I think
so. Most biologists agree, as I am sure you know.
Given what you've previously posted, I'm going to assume that the answer
is yes, you and Parksie make strange bedfellows.
Park and I probably agree on 99% of the textbooks in any field. Most
science is well founded and not a bit controversial.
Energy increases the information content in living systems (mainly
expressed as DNA), but nothing can organize life, plan it, or give it any
purpose. It is manifestly without purpose.
Given the complexity of living systems, that belief is, to put it mildly,
improbable.
You equate complexity with purpose -- with intelligence. There is
absolutely no basis for this belief in science, mathematics, or logic. You
(and the other creationists) invented this out of whole cloth a couple
decades ago, yet you treat it like a physical law! It reminds me of the way
people worship the notion that "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary
proof." No one believed that snippet of nonsense before Carl Sagan came up
with it, and no one should pay any attention to it now.
There are countless complex phenomena in chemistry and physics, both
animate and inanimate, which any educated person knows do not reflect plan
or purpose. Take snowflakes, for example. I presume you agree that the
complex crystal structure of snowflakes is entirely the product of known
laws of chemistry and physics. Take the weather, or plasma physics, cold
fusion, or catalysis. Take any one of a million known phenomena! All are
complex, and all are guided by fixed laws of nature, never by intent.
The most insidious problem with your belief is that it explains away
*everything*, not just biology. By your standard, we might as well stop
trying to look for the cause of CF. It is caused by intent; by supernatural
will. End of story. There is no answer to be found. Ditto quarks, leptons,
"Huntington's disease, spontaneous remission of cancer . . ." See:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2127054/ QUOTE:
"Because the really great thing about intelligent design is that it takes
all the awkward uncertainty out of science. It says, 'You know those damn
theoretical gaps and conundrums that send microbiology graduate students
into dank basement laboratories at 3 a.m.? They don't need to be resolved
at all. Go back to bed, sleepy little grad students. God fills those gaps.'
Let's face it: The problem with science has always been that each new
discovery unleashes thousands of new questions and ambiguities. So really,
the more we discover new stuff, the stupider we get. Clearly, that isn't
working. ID says we shouldn't bother ourselves with resolving scientific
inconsistencies or untangling puzzles. We should recognize that what God
really wants is for us just to stop learning."
Complication is no indication of plan or intent. The stock market is one
of the most complicated human institutions
No, but an integrated system which reverses entropy is.
Oh come now. You know better than that. There is no overall reversal of
entropy on earth. The energy input from the sun is degraded, overall.
Enhancements are local and temporary. For that matter, a stream of water
sometimes goes uphill. Part of a stream of water that splashes against a
rock sometimes gushes up and ends up higher, and local eddies sometimes
swirl upstream. Overall, the entire mass of water falls, and entropy increases.
I don't understand how the movement of the stock market is germane to
the complexity of the living organism.
As I just explained, both are examples of complexity without organization,
purpose or plan. Neither is guided in any sense. Of course there have been
incidents in which the stock market was secretly guided or influenced by
small groups of people, but these instances seldom last long and they
always end badly. By the same token, from time to time, localized events in
the development of life have been influenced or guided by intelligent
species -- and not just people, either. That is, events are influenced by
the intent of the participants. But there is no uber-mind guiding the stock
market. Indeed, it is obvious to all observers that the overall direction
of the market is often idiotic, pointless or self-destructive. The same is
true of the development of life. As Macbeth put it, life is a tale told by
an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Jed
