David, Robin, all, You may find SECOND LAW SURPRISES under MORE at aesopinstitute.org of interest.
Mark Mark Goldes Chairman, CEO, AESOP Energy LLC 707 861-9070 AESOP Institute website: www.aesopinstitute.org On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 6:05 PM, David Roberson <[email protected]> wrote: > Robin, > > I think we are on the same frequency in this quest. It appears that any > non linear process that can be coaxed into converting the kinetic energy > due to thermal motion into potential energy of some type will achieve the > goal. > > The second law must be based upon linear behavior of gasses, etc. and may > fail to cover non linear processes on occasion leading to violations. Of > course Maxwell's demon is clearly non linear since it is either completely > open or closed depending upon the magnitude of the kinetic energy of the > incoming particle. I suppose you could consider it related to an > electrical diode acting upon a series combination of DC and AC voltage. > You only see the value of the combination once it exceeds a fixed total > voltage magnitude. Another interesting comparison is that the waveform > ahead of the diode is clipped and reduced in RMS magnitude when the diode > conducts. Here I am assuming that the voltage source has a finite > resistance that is comparable to the load resistance following the series > connected diode. > > The evaporation process appears to have exactly this behavior. And, it > leads to cooling of the remaining liquid. I do not follow your second > example. > > The LED example seems to demonstrate a method which allows for the > elevation of kinetic energy into potential energy of electron orbitals > which can then be released to pass freely out of the system, taking some of > the kinetic energy away, leading to overall cooling of the remaining > material. > > These processes appear to be violations of the laws. > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mixent <[email protected]> > To: vortex-l <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2015 6:59 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:CONVERTING LENR HEAT INTO ELECTRICITY WITH UNIQUE AESOP > ENERGY ENGINES > > In reply to David Roberson's message of Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:40:33 -0400: > Hi > Dave, > [snip] > >This discussion is interesting. Perhaps the existing > thermodynamic laws apply mainly to black body types of interactions when > radiation is associated. Clearly the light emitted by an LED is not of that > nature. It is narrow band radiation at a level that is much higher in these > bands than would be expected according to the temperature of the > device. > > > >Also, the DC input power contributes a significant portion of the > net radiation output in a direct conversion process. This behavior is very > unlike most of the systems used to derive the thermodynamic laws. Perhaps > there > really does exist at least this one loophole that can be breached. > > > >A clear > understanding of exactly how the random thermal motion within the LED can be > converted into light at this level of efficiency would be desirable. Could it > be that the random peaks in thermal energy that follow a Gaussian distribution > are the key? Near the thermal peak one might find that a little help from the > DC source is sufficient to cause electrons to jump into higher orbitals. If > enough of these occur in a short period of time a population inversion may > come > into existance which would then drain the excess energy by positive feedback > and > subsequent radiation pulses. The excess energy would have to come from that > random thermal motion that was tapped leading to cooling of the device. > > > >Is > this an example of an atomic Maxwell's demon? > > It sounds a little like what I > have tried to describe previously with > evaporation. When water evaporates, only > the fastest molecules make the grade, > which essentially comprises a Maxwell > demon. This process converts the kinetic > energy of the fast molecules into > potential energy, and leaves the slow > molecules behind in the liquid, which is > then cooler as a consequence. > (We call a common example "wind chill".) > > By > jumping to a higher orbital, in your description here above, kinetic energy > is > also converted into potential energy. > > I have in the past also suggested a > setup where a plastic with an attached > charged ligand that was free to rotate, > was placed in a resonant chamber with a > magnetic field which would convert > microwaves into DC, thus preventing a two way > flow of energy. That also > constitutes a form of Maxwell demon, as the chamber > would appear as a cold sink > to the material. The chamber is tuned to resonate at > the same frequency as the > rotation frequency of the ligand. The general purpose > of this setup is to > convert random motion into ordered motion (thermal energy > into > DC). > > Regards, > > Robin van > Spaandonk > http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html > >
