RF interference is not imaginary. Simply turning on and off the power might work provided you place a shield near the meter to look for changes to the reading. Did he perform that test? I will watch the video to see how well he handled the questionable issues. I watched an earlier one and it was not obvious how the problems were controlled.
Dave -----Original Message----- From: Russ George <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2016 8:45 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) I think you are ‘over thinking’ watch the Youtube vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbf7735o3hQ and I believe your suggested issues are amply set to rest… The same Romanian guy and others have simply turned their EM drives upside down and repeated the tests with expected results, reversed thrust… Your idea of the magnetron influencing the mass balance is far from plausible there is a big difference between imagined issues and plausible issues. Ordinarily experimentalists quickly eliminate the impossible imaginable issues. For instance weighing a sample on the scale when disconnected from the EM drive while the magnetron is switched on and off would instantly prove or disprove such an imaginary influence as the magnetron interference with the balance readings. From: David Roberson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) I am just pointing out that when wires are attached it is simply too easy for outside forces to interfere with the results. How confident are you that the overall force he measures does not have a significant force contribution due to the current flowing through the wires? If not 100%, then you are are skeptical as well. Unless proof exists that the current does not cause a problem then no one that is a true skeptic will accept the experiment as being solid. The sure way to eliminate the problem is to eliminate the wires. Another issue that is a major concern is RF interference from the high power magnetron. Many if not most meters are greatly influenced by RF leakage from sources of much lower power. I have personally chased several problems caused by that type of interference and they can be difficult to handle. And do not be tricked by the appearance of a well shielded cavity since the power leads can easily radiate RF at that frequency. I do not believe that we should avoid asking the important questions by assuming that the guy has naturally solved all of the problems facing him as you seem to imply. This is not to suggest that he has not worked long and hard on this project, but instead highlighting issues that he should consider carefully. Isn't this what a good skeptic should believe? I honestly hope he has a working model. Also, it is important for all of us to be skeptical of new ideas until sufficient proof has been demonstrated that they are valid. That has nothing to do with puppy mills. When a device violates physical laws it is important to verify that what is claimed is true. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Russ George <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2016 4:21 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) Are you saying ‘why doesn’t this experimentalist do his experiment your way?’ That’s a bit presumptuous, clearly this guy has put in a lot of effort and diligence. His results are consistent with what other diligent experimentalists in the field have presented, faithfully matching their experiments though in a remarkably simple form. Noone of those others have done what you suggest and they seem to be very learned and well equipped and could have done so. The rule used to be in science that those with ‘good ideas’ were expected to contribute more than the ‘idea’ and do the work as well lest they be simply considered gadflies. The dire proliferation of the ‘skeptic’ point of view in science is the result of the rampant university puppy mills that have turned out legions of people with learning and no place to use it save in virtual realities. The tiny wires and geometry that power the magnetron in the aforementioned experiment don’t appear to offer any support to a notion that some sort of thrust between the wires is possible… you might of course replicate the experiment with just the wires you speak of (leave out all the complex bits) and report on being able to produce a facsimile of the thrust reported by the differential in the wires push and pull. From: David Roberson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) I would love to see a real EM Drive but it is impossible to believe an experiment with external power supply lines attached. Electric motors operate by utilizing the forces that exist between current carrying conductors. Two wires will always push or pull against each other when they carry current and this effect must be eliminated in order to prove drive force. Why does the experimenter not use some form of shielded on board battery for power? A short duration test might be possible especially if they wish to convince many skeptics. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Russ George <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2016 3:42 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) Here’s a link to a great EM Drive DIY experiment http://www.masinaelectrica.com/emdrive-independent-test/#comment-10348 From: David Roberson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) I suppose we will have to discover that aether before we can have confidence in that possibility. Would you expect a normal rocket to behave in the same manner if it had to push the aether out of its way? Why would that not require both effects to be present thereby changing the reaction mass expelled by the standard rocket? How would you detect the bow wave or other mass-equivalents to prove they exist? Something must contain the energy that was lost due to operation of the drive and it should be measurable. Then, you will need to modify Special Relativity in order to detect the true absolute reference frame of the universe. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2016 3:20 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) Stated another way – does the aether have mass or mass-equivalence (virtual mass or effective mass)? If so, and the EM drive is moving in aether, then leaving a wake (bow wave, eddy turbulence, kelvin wake, etc) also leaves a mass-equivalence. From: David Roberson Good argument. I just wanted to add one thought. >From the EM drive's point of view the CoE must be violated because as it >accelerates in space a portion of it's mass must be converted into energy that >is used to power the drive. When it ceases to use the drive it begins to >remain motionless in space from its point of view. Where did that mass go >which was converted into energy that powered the drive? Did it simply vanish?
