As I have stated, if the steam is truly dry then plenty of power is being supplied to the customer. If the ERV is mistaken that the steam is dry then I.H. is likely correct.
If everyone accepts that the true pressure of the steam is atmospheric while the temperature is 102.8 C then it is dry. But that is the root of the problem; both parties do not agree that this is true. Only one can be right in this case. Also, there is no law of nature that ensures that what the ERV states is true. He may be confused by the location of gauges, etc. AA, Engineer48 claims that the pumps are all manually set and not under automatic control according to his picture. If true, that would eliminate the feedback level control that was discussed earlier. It is my opinion that some form of automatic level control is required in order to produce a stable system that prevents liquid filling or dying out of the CATS. This is an important factor that both of the parties should address. Dave -----Original Message----- From: a.ashfield <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 10:59 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting Steam Calculation Apparently the ERV measured 102.8 C @ atmospheric pressure. That is dry steam. That implies the customer used steam at a negative pressure. On 8/23/2016 8:50 PM, Bob Cook wrote: Dave-- The steam table indicates a condition of equilibrium between the liquid phase and the gaseous phase of water. If the conditions are 1 bar at a temperature above the 99.9743 there is no liquid phase in equilibrium with the steam (gas) phase. The gas is phase is at 102 degrees and is said to be super heated. The steam tables tell you nothing about liquid phase carry-over in a dynamic flowing system. Normally there would be a moisture separator in the system to assure no carry-over. Bob From: David Roberson <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 9:27:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting Steam Calculation Dave-- Where did the pressure of 15.75 psi abs come from? I thought the pressure of the 102C dry steam (assumed) was 1 atmos.--not 15.75 abs. I think your assumed conditions above 1 atmos. were never measured. Bob Cook Bob, I used a steam table calculator located at http://www.tlv.com/global/TI/calculator/steam-table-pressure.html to obtain my data points. According to that source, 14.6954 psi abs is 0 bar at a temperature of 99.9743 C degrees. At 102 C degrees the pressure is shown as 15.7902 psi absolute. Also, at 15.75 psi abs you should be at 101.928 C. I must have accidentally written the last digit in error for some reason. Does this answer your first question? You are correct about the assumed pressures above 1 atmosphere not being measured directly. I admit that I rounded off the readings a bit, but the amount of error resulting from the values I chose did not appear to impact the answers to a significant degree. In one of Rossi's earlier experiments the temperature within his ECAT was measured to reach a high of about 135 C just as the calculated power being measured at the output of his heat exchanger reached the maximum. At the time I concluded that this must have occurred as a result of the filling of his device by liquid water. I chose 130 C for my latest calculations mainly as an estimate of the temperature within the ECAT modules. The higher pressure (39.2 psi absolute) was the value required to keep the liquid water in saturation with the vapor. Rossi is using a feedback system to control the heating of his modules and that requires him to operate each at a few degrees above the output temperature(102 C?) as a minimum. There is no guarantee that he regulates them at 130 C as I assumed, but that temperature was consistent with having a ratio of vapor volume to liquid volume of nearly 100 to 1. Of course I could have raised the ECAT temperature to get a larger ratio of flash vapor to liquid water at the output stream. Likewise, the ratio would drop if a lower temperature is assumed. The 130 C appeared to be near to his earlier design, and I had to choose something. Do you have a suggestion for a better temperature or pressure to assume? Dave
