Michel Jullian wrote. > > Ok if by "battery" you mean ultracaps :) Wait, what do you mean by Pipeline > Hydrogen? > Hydrogen produced on a large scale by electrolysis or coal and biomass gasifican etc, delivered to the user by pipeline. Production based on demand eliminates the economically elusive cheap/safe storage solution.
Fred > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > > > Any way you slice it, Michel battery storage of electricity off the Grid > > is > > the most practical way to "store" Pipeline Hydrogen for Vehicle use. > > > > Fred > > > > Michel Jullian wrote: > >> > >> Well no the Eiffel Tower couldn't support a windmill on top as it already > >> supports TV emitters, and your scheme would make TV emissions > >> stroboscopic > >> at a frequency depending on wind speed :) > >> > >> A storage device in the garage will be recommended indeed, but it's not > >> practical with electrochemistry because of the lifetime issues I > > mentioned. > >> Ultracaps would be fine though, and would allow recharging in a matter of > >> minutes i.e. as fast as refilling your gas tank. That's how EEstor > > envisions > >> refill stations BTW, lots of ultracaps. > >> > >> BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your > >> opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago > >> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app number > >> 0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent) > >> > >> Michel > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:37 PM > >> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> > >> > >> > >From what I've seen on this topic, no one has suggested putting a high > >> > efficiency > >> > battery (comparable to the one in your vehicle) or other storage device > > in > >> > your garage > >> > and charging it with a rooftop solar panel, windmill (this was done > > down > >> > on > >> > the farm in the 1930s), > >> > waste heat device, then charge your vehicle from it while you are > >> > on rest mode. Then there are piped-in-hydrogen fuel cells on the > >> > horizon > >> > also. > >> > > >> > The Eiffel Tower could sport a windmill on top, Michel. :-) > >> > > >> > Fred > >> > > >> > Michel Jullian wrote. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I agree, progress in this field can't be incremental. The main issue > > with > >> >> electrochemical batteries (lithium or whatever they might come up with > > in > >> >> the future) is cost in the long run due to limited life (in number of > >> >> recharges). A dry parallel plate type capacitor such as the EEstor > > device > >> > if > >> >> it really works would last for ages (millions of recharges vs > > hundreds). > >> >> > >> >> We shouldn't get too excited though, people have been known to make > >> >> extraordinary claims only intended for investors, I am not saying this > > is > >> >> the case for EEstor and I certainly hope it isn't :) > >> >> > >> >> Michel > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Zell, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >> To: <[email protected]> > >> >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:34 PM > >> >> Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental > >> >> >problems > >> >> > with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency > > out > >> >> > of an > >> >> > electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we > >> >> > go > >> >> > beyond lithium? > >> >> > > >> >> > That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new > > way > >> >> > to fix the energy storage problem. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM > >> >> > To: [email protected] > >> >> > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> >> > > >> >> > Zell, Chris wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >>This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a > > Really > >> >> > > >> >> >>Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You > > create > >> >> >>electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for > >> >> >>additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a > >> >> >>device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that > >> >> >>would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. > >> >> > > >> >> > Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior > >> >> > technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives > >> >> > rise > >> >> > to superior technology. This is what is happening now with > > batteries. > >> >> > We > >> >> > do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably > > Improved > >> >> > Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid > >> >> > cars > >> >> > and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. > >> >> > Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this > >> >> > has > >> >> > created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D > >> >> > funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically > > improved > >> >> > versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. > >> >> > > >> >> > Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand > > for > >> >> > cell phones and portable computers. > >> >> > > >> >> > Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a > > radical > >> >> > breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes > >> >> > along > >> >> > once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no > >> >> > connection to the quotidian world of money and business. > >> >> > (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away > >> >> > from > >> >> > what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce > >> >> > incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the > > Really > >> >> > Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors > > with > >> >> > 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your > > pocket. > >> >> > Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to > > me, > >> >> > anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising > >> >> > discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement > >> >> > after > >> >> > another. > >> >> > > >> >> > - Jed > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
