Michel Jullian wrote. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:46 AM > > >> > I'm after that ~ 80,000 joule/mole Spontaneous Free Energy in the > >> > Autoionization of Water > >> > ( 0.83 eV per H-OH bond, 2 H2O <---> H3O+ + OH -) > >> > >> Fred do you mean the following? (H3O+ is the aqueous solute of H+ isn't > > it? > >> My chemistry courses are awfully far away :) > >> --------- > >> H2O(l) -> OH-(aq) + H+(aq) - 55.836 kJ/mol (endothermic) > >> Reverse reaction spontaneous at 25°C. No equilibrium temperature. > >>-------- > >> If it is then it's about 60kJ/mol but absorbed, not produced, and it only > >> occurs in a marginal way (not spontaneous at any temperature) > >> > > http://chimge.unil.ch/En/ph/1ph4.htm > > > > "2 H2O <---> H3O + + OH- delta G = 79,900 joule/mole" > > Oh you meant the Gibbs free energy change Fred? My spreadsheet agrees: it > finds dG=79.87 kJ/mol for the reaction as I have written it, so it's > obviously the same reaction. > Right, and if it wasn't "Free" by 0.83 eV per H3O+ and OH- pair continuouly produced from high purity water you would have to add acids-bases or salts (or atmospheric acid gases-molecules) to get the 18 Megohm-cm (or less) resistivity. > > But dG has nothing to do with produced energy, which is -dH (minus the > _enthalpy_ change), which in the present case is negative (-56kJ/mol as > shown above i.e. the reaction absorbs energy). dG is about spontaneity and > dynamics, not about net energy. > Yes it does, Michel. Try electolyzing Anhydrous Methanol or Ethanol or glycols and motor oil, not to mention ice.. :-) > > If you're interested in the thermochemistry > calculator spreadsheet which can work out this kind of stuff (enthalpies, > entropies, Gibbs, and more) for any reaction you specify, I'll send it to > you by private email. > Thanks for the offer. I'll let my lackey(1800 miles away) finish running the stainlees steel Joe Cell type plate-stack experiment where present power in/power.out is 4.0 but,the energy from that lump of coal used in charging the battery is probaly going to give an energy in/energy out ratio of 0.75. Free energy does fall off apple trees though.
Isaac Newton probably figured that out.. Fred > > Michel > > > > > In running closed cell Conductivity-Resistivity tests of water with inert > > electrodes > > the values stay constant, Michel. :-) > > > > Fred > > > > > > >
