Michel Jullian wrote:
Trying again, 1st attempt didn't get through (not on archive either)
While I am at it, does anyone have any idea of which energy is lost by the
system in the paper clip experiment below to compensate for gravitational
potential energy increase?
I believe the energy comes from the internal energy of the paperclip
itself. Within the clip, there are permanent current loops playing the
roles of the magnetic "domains", and the currents change as the external
magnetic field changes (in the paper clip's frame of reference).
Unfortunately iron is pretty complicated stuff, and I'm no expert on
this subject. I can hack the field equations in free space but to
really understand a piece of iron you probably need to understand the
quantum mechanical effects which make the iron ferromagnetic rather than
diamagnetic, and I don't.
If you want to look at a far, far simpler case which can be understood
without knowing how magnetic domains work, take a look at my "A little
brain teaser" post from last night. It's a tightly constrained gedanken
experiment in which the rules of the game guarantee that the B field
does no work, yet it shows the same "Darn the magnet obviously just
performed work!!" effect. In that case, it's obvious where the energy
comes from, though. I posted it as a "puzzle", and I didn't originally
intend to post the solution for a day or two, but that plan no longer
looks so hot, so I'll just say that in the gedanken experiment the
spinning ring slows down. Total energy of the system -- rotational
energy + linear kinetic energy -- must be conserved, and the right-hand
rule quickly leads to the conclusion that as the ring moves through the
field toward the box it experiences a torque opposite its direction of spin.
Michel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Jullian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Free energy in magnets? (was Re: Read it again)
Hi Terry, it seems to me this experiment can be further simplified: hold a
paper clip underneath a magnet, and then open your fingers. The paper clip will
rise to the magnet, therefore increasing it's gravitational potential energy
between it's initial and final positions, thanks to the magnet.
Work is performed indeed by the magnet, but why conclude that total energy of
the system hasn't been conserved?
Michel
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 3:53 PM
Subject: [Vo]: Re: Read it again
-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell
I do not know of any experimental evidence that demonstrates
excess energy from magnets or springs.
<><><><><><>
Okay, I have seen three. All involve magnetic gradients which most
certainly perform work. I will try, one more time, to explain the most
simple one:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotidx.htm
In this image a ball is dropped from 31 mm and from 35 mm into a curved
glass tube which constitutes an inclined plane. This is done with the
fingers of the experimenter who eats food for an energy source. The
second drop causes the ball to roll further up the inclined plane with
an increased energy of 0.424 mJ. The earth provides the kinetic energy.
Now the experimenter replaces his fingers with a permanent magnetic
field and gets the same result. He places the ball at the 31 mm level
of the field gradient and the gradient lifts the ball to 35 mm. What
does the magnet eat???
This device demonstrates a COP of 1.133. I have personally tested
another magnetic gradient field device which presently operates with a
COP of 2.33 and will soon operate with a much higher one. I will be
happy to arrange for you to view the device. It is here in the
metropolitan area.
Terry
