Problem is Stephen, you did not read the part where it explains that the "narrow-angle" model does not apply when the jet is more than 19° from our line-of-sight.
In the case of M87, the best evidence (from Hubble, and it was not available before that) suggests that the jet is in fact about 43° to our line-of-sight, and consequently any narrow angle model or a variant, cannot apply to M87. The same group of scientists later revised that first "spin" argument to argue in favor of a "superluminal bulk movement" model in which the jet is "embedded". It is an even shakier rationalization, since it involves purely "invented" assumptions for which the evidence is thin. IOW it was "spin" then, and still is spin now, IMHO. The observable facts tell us otherwise. And yes, M87 still remains a rather huge problem for anyone with a critical mind relative to a lightspeed limitation. Jones -----Original Message----- From: Stephen A. Lawrence On 01/07/2010 11:57 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > Fran, > > On the other hand, to wax a bit impolite spatially - the closest giant > elliptical galaxy to Earth and usually the brightest radio sources in > the sky is called M87. In 1999 astronomers were interested in a jet of > particles being emitted, which can be seen with small telescopes here, > and was first noticed in 1918. The Hubble Space Telescope was then aimed > in that direction and in actual comparative images of features of the > jet, taken and compared over time - the outward acceleration was > measured at six times the speed of light. No lie. > > This was a big problem for most of mainstream physics, of course, No, it wasn't. In fact this effect was known long before the Hubble was ever launched; I first heard of it back in high school. Your comments about "spin doctors" going to work after the Hubble observed the effect are completely off base. Have you ever worked through the geometry? It's interesting and a bit tricky, but not difficult. The apparent velocity can be far greater than C, and in fact can approach infinity, depending on the angle -- all while the material of the jet itself is moving at less than C. In fact this is a purely "classical" effect; all it depends on is the travel velocity of the light by which we see the object. I've got a solution worked out for the case of an apparently superluminal spherical shell of expanding gas around a supernova: http://www.physicsinsights.org/superluminal_shell.html The case of an apparently superluminal jet is similar.
