1. [cid:[email protected]] Camille Cholst says: November 18, 2010 at 6:14 pm<http://froarty.scienceblog.com/about/comment-page-1/#comment-63> (Edit)<http://froarty.scienceblog.com/wp-admin/comment.php?action=editcomment&c=63>
http://www.stardrive.org/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=nick-herbert-thinks-that-the-haisch-moddell-zpe-vacuum-engine-wont-work-ii.html&Itemid=56 2. [cid:[email protected]] froarty<http://www.byzipp.com/animaTime.htm> says: November 19, 2010 at 8:21 am<http://froarty.scienceblog.com/about/comment-page-1/#comment-65> (Edit)<http://froarty.scienceblog.com/wp-admin/comment.php?action=editcomment&c=65> Camille, I disagree with Nick regarding the need for energy needed to push the gas atoms out of "suprssion" pipe equalling the amount of energy released when the electron dropped from the suggested N2 to N1 state upon entering the "supression" pipe. I remain a fence sitter with regard to the Casimir Lamb pinch method of energy extraction but I do believe covalent bonds formed during supression can rectify and accumulate energy when transitioning between different levels of supression. I totally agree with Bernard's analogy of energy availability below: On Mar 3, 2010, at 5:05 PM, Bernard Haisch wrote: "Consider again the thought experiment below. Assume for simplicity's sake that all the hydrogen electrons are excited into the n=2 state outside the pipe. Some pressure is applied to push the hydrogen gas through the pipe and out the other side. Inside the pipe some of the electrons will de-excite to the n=1 level, some will not and remain in n=2. I see no reason why there should be any difference between the flow rate of the two populations. Being pressure forced through the pipe and de-exciting (or not) are completely unrelated processes. A thought experiment clarifying the Haisch-Moddel patent (7,379,286) concept: Imagine a monatomic hydrogen gas exposed to Lyman-alpha radiation at 121.5 nm which excites the electron into the n=2 level. Now let some of the gas enter a pipe which blocks the radiation. The hydrogen electron will drop back to the ground state, n=1. We can certainly capture the emitted radiation in the pipe. On exiting the pipe the hydrogen is again exposed to Lyman-alpha radiation and the electron is excited into the n=2 level again. The process is easily done but not useful because we are simply capturing some of the energy we put there in creating the Lyman-alpha radiation. However this clearly shows that there is no correlation between the electron energy levels and any kind of potential energy relevant to motion into and out of the pipe. The excitation and de-excitation do not produce any forces pulling the hydrogen into or out of the pipe. They are independent processes. Substitute zero-point radiation for Lyman-alpha and a Casimir cavity for the pipe and assume that because of the Casimir suppression of zero-point radiation there is a temporary reduction in the ground state of the atomic electron (as shown by Puthoff and by Cole) while in the cavity and you have the proposed patent. (Note that this does not produce any so-called stable hydrinos.)" Bernard Haisch EQUAL time for other side: On Mar 2, 2010, at 10:52 AM, David Sarfatti wrote: 'Here is the fallacy with the Haisch patent, I believe : Since the atoms of the gas are in a lower energy state within the Casimir cavity, they are, in effect, in an energy well. Hence, they will experience a net force causing them to remain in the cavity. The energy required to remove them from the cavity will be exactly balanced by the net gain from the ambient ZPF. Of course , additional frictional losses will lead to a net negative gain in energy rendering the invention useless as a free energy source." MY reply is that the above is correct for normal acceleration or travel between different energy densities in an energy or gravity well - the concept of suppression reduces energy density without this need for spatial displacement or acceleration, instead it is equivalent acceleration or displacement contributed by the quantum effect of the atomic geometry of the suppressing or Casimir containment surrounding the cavity which the gas atoms occupy.
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