On 09/25/2011 03:19 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Maoro, i did propose that idea also here at Vortex, but it does not work and
it cannot explain 7 km/s difference. We have measured that speed of light in
vacuum is not depended on direction at least accuracy of ±0.1 m/s. I do not
remember how accurately it was measured, but it was much more accurate than
the absolute value for c that is measured with accuracy of ±1m/s. Hence
there is absolutely no observable difference between real c and the speed of
light in vacuum and indeed we can measure very accurately the slowing down
of light in medium/aether versus the real c.
But it does not need to be an anisotropic effect. Simply, the maximum
possible speed (let's call it /c/), is slightly more than the maximum
speed of light(let's call it /cl/). Until the neutrino speed
measurement, it was assumed that light speed in vacuum was the maximum
possible speed (that is, that /cl = c/). Now we know (if the experiment
is correct and hasn't another more mundane explanation) that neutrino
speeds are closer to a putative /c/ than light speeds. That is
equivalent to saying that the refractive index of vacuum is slightly
more than 1 for light. How slightly more will depend on how the new /c/
is defined, and at least in principle, it makes sense to define it based
on the neutrino speed measurements.
Now, I wonder if this is all there's to it, and I certainly doubt it.
Probably the new /c /will also be slightly less than the maximum
possible speed, that is, neutrinos will have a refractive index closer
to but greater than one too.
And finally: there's still the possibility of systematic effects related
to Earth's movement, gps signals traveling in air, neutrinos traveling
underground, etc.
Regards,
Mauro
—Jouni
On Sep 25, 2011 8:56 PM, "Mauro Lacy"<[email protected]> wrote:
On 09/24/2011 09:57 PM, Mauro Lacy wrote:
On 09/24/2011 11:04 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
The New Scientist article, "Dimension-hop may allow neutrinos to
cheat light speed", here:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20957-dimensionhop-may-allow-
neutrinos-to-cheat-light-speed.html
suggest dimension hops as the means for neutrinos traveling faster
than light, as measured in the CERN OPERA experiment, described by
Adam et al., "Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the OPERA
detector in the CNGS beam" here:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897
The arrival time of the neutrinos across a 730 km distance was 60.7
ns early, representing 2.48x10^-5 relative difference vs light travel
time.
This measurement conflicts with early arrival time data for neutrinos
from supernova. The New Scientist article quotes Marc Sher of the
College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia, "It's not
reasonable." ... "If neutrinos were that much faster than light, they
would have arrived [from the supernova] five years sooner, which is
crazy," says Sher. "They didn't."
This implies a difference in travel speed in matter vs vacuum for the
neutrinos.
That's a possibility. Another is that this implies an extra difference
in travel speed in air vs. vacuum for light.
The electromagnetic signals sent by the gps systems are delayed a little
bit more than expected according to current theory. And that becomes
apparent only when compared with neutrino speeds, which are unaffected.
This is consistent with the Cahill and Kitto paper about the non-null
results of Michelson& Morley type experiments and the relation with the
refractive index of the medium:
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0205065
Interestingly, the 7.5 km/s reported difference in neutrino speed is in
good agreement with the 8 km/s result estimated for Michelson& Morley
type experiments in air.
And a third possibility: the underground distance estimation between
laboratories is wrong according to current theory. This can be the case,
by example, if unaccounted for length contraction is happening due to
gravitational effects. I would search for the difference in height
between both laboratories, the way to estimate length contraction due to
gravitational effects, and the estimated intensity of the gravitational
field at the neutrino beam mean travel depth.
And a fourth (and obvious one), sugested in one of the comments of
Nature's
announcement(
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110922/full/news.2011.554.html):
Light speed in vacuum is not the maximum possible speed. That is, /c/ is
not equal to the speed of light in vacuum, but slightly more. The vacuum
has a refractive index slightly greater than one. Light interacts
ligthly with the vacuum, then, whereas neutrinos don't interact (or
interact less) with the vacuum or matter.
Mauro
