Dear Giovanni, Your post was NOT trolling.
I am probably the one most responsible for your reticence or concern about posting because I came down pretty hard on the trolls. and that probably has a few of you concerned about getting the same kind of treatment. *Please forgive me*, that is not my intention for those who play by the rules - we all want this to remain a friendly, respectful forum for discourse. Your posting was most appropriate and welcome! The first thing that comes to mind about your posting, is item 2); that somebody already thought of it. That has happened with cold fusion. and I'm sorry that I'm not good with names, perhaps Jed can help. But there were two papers, one early 1900s, and one decades later (one was by Paneth and Peters?) which stumbled upon what is thought to be CF/LENR. however, these were experimental papers, not theoretical, IIRC. But it was considered some kind of anomaly and never looked into. This is one of my pet peeves! That anomalous empirical data is many times forgotten and explained away as experimental error. But isn't science supposed to be about the unknown, and trying to better understand what we don't know.. Yet, there really are some things that will ruin your career if you attempt to do research on them! That is so anti-science, and yet, that is reality. F&P, 1989, were the first to really study CF/LENR extensively.. for YEARS before they come out with it. they knew it was going to cause a lot of heartburn with their colleagues and especially the physics community. And it took guts to do what they did. and they paid dearly. Keep thinking and questioning and posting. Most Sincerely, -Mark From: Giovanni Santostasi [mailto:gsantost...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:19 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Garbage Collection of a Fool's Imagination Orion, Hopefully my comment is not understood as trolling.... but as polite criticism. It is nice to have imagination and to think about things that are considered by main stream science as impossible. I wish more professional scientists could do that (some do and they wait until they come close to retirement or at least get tenure). What is also nice, though, is to try to see what could go wrong in a particular imagined idea or scheme as a way of understanding better and making more concrete what one imagines. It happened many times to me to think about ideas that I believed were great to find out almost always that two things were true: 1) the idea had some fundamental problem with it and I could not see it (at least at first) 2) the idea was actually good but somebody already thought about it It is simply difficult to come up with something completely amazing, right and original at the same time. But one can learn a lot from this thinking and it is a good way to learn and think about science and nature that are amazing anyway. Well, about the buoyancy perpetual motion we have the case that it is something unfortunately neither original (in the sense that somebody already thought about it) or really working (even if due to relatively subtle reasons). Somewhere non conservative forces are going to make your device stop. This why there is not a working model of such devices but often simulations can be found on the net. Here one example of a pretty complete discussion about different kinds of buoyancy perpetual machines and why they don't work: http://www.hp-gramatke.net/pmm_physics/english/page0550.htm Giovanni On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson <orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: Speaking of Regularly Scheduled Programming, here's one from Ski-Fi channel! To my surprise, the troll, Eff Wivakeef, before he was banned, posted something that I personally found fascinating and transformational. Well. let me try to explain what I mean by "transformational". <* * * Warning! * * *> This has to do with another one of those strange synchronistic woo-woo events that occasionally pass through my life. If you don't believe in synchronicity or the existence of strange Unidentified Flying Woo-Woos (UFW2s) you might as well skip the rest of this post. ;-) </* * * Warning! * * *> I'm referring to the Troll's attempt to both taunt and ridicule the Vort Collective by posting a You-Tube link to a bogus free energy device allegedly based on the manipulation of gravity, gradient water pressure, and buoyancy. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89SiqG3pI0 We see an individual, James Kwok, owner of a company called Hidro, explaining how his technology works with the aid of a fish tank filled with water and a flexible tube attached at both ends with inflatable bags. One bag has a weight attached to it. Kwok proceeds to give a warm & fuzzy spiel with birds chirping away in the background on how gravity affects water pressure, and how this pressure buildup in-turn affects the buoyancy of the two inflatable bags depending on how deep these bags are positioned within a reservoir of water. Ok, so far, so good. I have a pretty decent understanding of the underlying physics involved pertaining to water pressure and the effects buoyancy. Kwok then proceeds to show how he found a way, through some clever engineering tricks, of manipulating the effects of buoyancy by filling ballast tanks with gas. This causes the ballast tanks to become lighter than the surrounding water where they will subsequently rise to the surface. Meanwhile other ballast tanks currently on the surface of the water will fill with water causing them to become heavier than the surrounding water and sink. The end-game to Kwok's fascinating demo is revealed in a simple animated computer graphic where he claims an endless free energy cycle can be harnessed by connecting these ballast tanks with the aid of what looks like a very long bicycle chain. The rotating chain, in turn powers an electric generator. Wallah! Free energy! Brought to you by gravity, water pressure, ballast tanks, and a bicycle chain! What could go wrong! What astonished me was not whether Kwok's contraption would work. (Not very likely!) The mystery I was confronting was what kind of mechanisms might have been involved in bringing Kwok's wacky concept to my attention in the first place. How did this Troll's random post, a troll who didn't know me, a troll who was attempting to taunt members of the list group I participate in, end up posting something that intimately synchronized with something I had been privately mulling about in my head for the past week. During occasional idle moments, I had found myself trying to visualize how one might be able to set up some kind of a "free energy" cycle that could take advantage of gravity/pressure/buoyancy effects. Hey! I know it's a crazy idea! I can't help myself! Long ago I came out of the closet (at least to myself) and accepted the fact that I enjoy playing around with these wacky mental exercises. So far, I haven't gone blind from excessive Imagerybation. My Fool's Imagination seems harmless. What this visual exercise brought home to me was a realization that what I thought I had I created out of my own mind probably didn't originate from me after all. It certainly wasn't a personal creation that had originated from the troll's mind as he went about attempting to torment us. Nor was it any more a form of inspiration created from the mind of James Kwok when years ago he stumbled across the same imaginary "figment" and subsequently started diddling with it using his own engineering predilections. Before someone tactfully asks me whether I might have left my tinfoil hat at home I must state for the record that long ago I came around to a suspicion (a belief) that most of us are constantly being barraged by these kinds of external imaginative energy patterns. It's happening to us regardless of whether we are aware of how such influences might affect our thinking predilections. It is as if these energy patterns are the equivalent of psychic viruses that are constantly flowing through the either of what Carl Jung called the Collective Unconscious. Under the circumstances, I don't think tinfoil would have helped. ;-) But take heart. Long ago I suspect our species found practical ways in which to protect ourselves from an incessant onslaught of psychic viral attacks, "viruses" that might actually be a form of "Instinct" as exhibited by animals. Most of us automatically dismiss most of these "viruses" as nothing more than a random thought. This is probably a good thing because I would imagine that our wetware would get pretty cluttered if we didn't have some kind of an automated filtering system set in place. We have constructed our very own firewall. How we have configured our personal filters determines what our wetware will allow through into conscious awareness. A few, like Kwok get hooked on the "viral" imagery because of the way he had configured his personal firewall, but also because he was attracted to similar concepts in the first place! Guess I could say something similar must have happened to me as well... and apparently to the Troll too, in his own mean spirited way. Once we "capture" one of these viruses, once we become consciously aware, and then intrigued by the imagery associated with them, we begin adding our own unique energy signature to the overall patterns. Eventually, however, we begin tire of the imaginary. We let go of it, and when we do we cease feeding our own unique signature of energy into that portion of the Collective Unconscious. We give it back to the Great Gestalt. Eventually, others will stumble across the same gestalt. They too, will end up adding their own unique signature to the Great Collective. I suspect these energy gestalts residing in Collective Unconscious are like constantly evolving creatures. I believe science has recently hypothesized the possibility that certain viruses (of the biological kind) might not necessarily be detrimental. Some may actually turn out to be beneficial. There certainly has been talk about engineering artificial viruses that would perform specific biological tasks such as an aid to seeking out and destroying cancer. "Viruses" from the Collective Unconscious strike me as behaving in a similar manner. They are nothing more than psychic tools. Some tools are bound to be better configured than others. Some may be intrigued by the idea of a Collective Unconscious behaving like a vast repository where inspiration occasionally springs into our conscious awareness. I'm obviously not the first person to have speculated on such ideas. No doubt, there are many who have chosen to run about as naked as they can get... without any protective tinfoil shielding the private parts of their wetware. Others, on the other hand, may find the idea of a Collective Unconscious, meddling about with their personal imagination, disquieting. It messes around too much with a sacred sense of our identity - our soul, if you will. In the end, it doesn't really matter whether one believes in all this psychic woo-woo stuff, or not. What matters is whether we are willing to allow ourselves to occasionally become passive, to float along the gentle currents of the present moment for just a tiny spell. Give ourselves an opportunity to RECEIVE ideas in whatever form or shape they decide to reveal themselves to us as. Of course, what we end up DOING with what pops into our head remains a personal predilection of our own doing. Happy garbage collection! .and now, back to regularly scheduled programming! ;-) Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
