Did you measure current or voltage at any time? Jeff On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Chuck, > > My experiment has ended for today with my power supply blowing out. I > think my last test was not a good test of the nickel vs copper. I was > using what looks like a chrome plated alligator type clip as the anode in > both. I can see where that could have been a problem as well as I don't > know what it was plated with. Also, I think it's not a good idea to use > the same power supply for two cells as it seems more current may flow one > direction than the other? I didn't use any W in the copper cathode cell > (only in the one with the nickels). > > Now here's the really curious thing. In the copper cell, the 10 ml of > borax is gone. I tried to mix it in at the beginning, but it just settled > back to the bottom. Some kind of chemistry was taking place. Perhaps > producing boric acid? Some of it also appears to have collected in/on the > anode. > > I'm using two small measuring glasses (150 ml capacity filled to 110 ml). > Before the power supply blew after 3 1/2 hrs the copper cell hit 129.7F > and the nickel cell was at 79.1. The nickel cell peaked out at 92.1 after > 1 hour and slowly dropped. I think it was a current flow problem as those > results for the nickel cell were not consistent with my first run. > > Also, for anyone trying to replicate should head the following. If you > use a cooking thermometer, do not leave it in the cell while you are > running the experiment. I did this with my first one, and it permanently > altered the readout making it 20F too high because of some deposit on the > metal that could not be removed. > > Jack > > > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Chuck Sites <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Jack, >> >> Congratulations, your report is exactly in lines with what I saw >> with Ni(+) Cu(-) in my jar experiments. That was typically 100ml of H2O >> and a 3gm Na2B4O7 solution. Once the Ni coin breaks down just a little, in >> a constant voltage system, the current would jump up and the Ni coin would >> get hot. (Your counter electrode, should be the temp of the solution). >> Those quick calculations are interesting because your doing it like I did, >> running an open system, no recombiner, and your system has >> hit equilibrium. The fun part is that it will go for days like that, as >> long as the water is replenished. Eventually you may need to add a little >> more electrolyte. >> >> I know there is some complex boron chemistry going on with metal oxides >> forming as a result which is typical of electrolysis. What is unusual >> about this as far as Joule heating, or Ohmic heating, is that in a typical >> wire, >> heating occurs in a location where current is pinched where Q is >> proportional to I^2 R. So typically as in a Nichrome wire, it's a small >> diameter, and slightly higher resistance than the feeding electrodes. Here >> you have this really large hunk of metal (the Ni coin) and the feeding wire >> is smaller than the metal. It just such a large are >> for resistive heating. >> >> I just read your update with the Cu coin as the (+) heating more. What >> is your counter electrode material. Tungsten? It maybe, W is also one of >> those interesting H absorbing materials. W was always on the todo >> list though. Keep going, I'm really interested in seeing what you get. >> Also, could you guess as to the size of your jar dimensions and weight. >> A typical glass jar also has a pretty good size heat capacity. >> >> Best Regards, >> Chuck >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> So that's 141.7g of water. It was an open container so heat freely >>> dissipated and I would also presume that power was also going into >>> electrolysis in addition to heating. So, based on Arnaud's calculations, >>> we can't rule out purely electrical heating. I'll report on the next >>> experiment which involves a control cell using pennies instead of nickels >>> and no thoriated tungsten. I have two identical cells that I have filled >>> with equal amounts of borax and water and will be powering from the same >>> supply (one has thoriated tungsten/nickels and the other with >>> pennies/copper). >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> It was 5 oz of water. I shut it down after the temp maxed out at 158F. >>>> On Oct 1, 2012 12:29 PM, "Arnaud Kodeck" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ** >>>>> Find here some simple calorimetry calculations : >>>>> >>>>> Electrical energy given to the system : 4.33 hours @ 12 watt = 187056 >>>>> J => 44677 cal >>>>> >>>>> To rise the temp from 55 F to 146 F, the system need 50 cal/g of >>>>> water. (Assuming electrodes and recipient are negligible) >>>>> >>>>> Assuming no loss of heat by dissipation, the electrical energy >>>>> released will rise the temperature of 44677 / 50 = 884g of water. >>>>> >>>>> If Jack use more than 884g of water, we are sure that there is another >>>>> energy source (chemical or other). >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* ken deboer [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>> *Sent:* lundi 1 octobre 2012 19:00 >>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Replication of Chuck Sites Nickel/Boron Experiment >>>>> >>>>> Very interesting, indeed. How much water are you using? If >>>>> everything were 100% efficient, and you were inputting 12 watts/hr = ~40 >>>>> btu/hr, over 3 hours you would have 120 btu, which theoretically could >>>>> raise 1 pound of water 120 F. >>>>> Best regards, kend >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Jed, glad to do it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Small update: >>>>>> >>>>>> 7 am Temp 55F Start >>>>>> 9 am Temp 110F >>>>>> 10 am Temp 129F >>>>>> 11:20 am Temp 146F >>>>>> >>>>>> Outside temp started at 55F and was at 57F at 11:20 am. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll keep running until the temp levels off. At that point, I'll >>>>>> work on setting up a control cell. The water has turned brown, so I >>>>>> presume something is also happening with the copper (either in the >>>>>> nickels >>>>>> or the exposed portion of copper wire attaching to the electrode). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jed Rothwell >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for doing this! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Jed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >
