Hello Mark,
I have been using regular tap water. Your question makes me reconsider the alternatives. Where can I find a source for distilled water that is readily available? I assumed that the large quantity of Borax or other electrolyte would dominate the reaction and the water at my location is of excellent quality and exhibits an extremely large impedance until the powders are added. Dave -----Original Message----- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint <zeropo...@charter.net> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 26, 2012 1:43 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:New Experiment Started Dave, Sorry if I missed it, but are you using tap water, or distilled/deionized water? -mark From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:57 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started That appears like a pretty good process for the nickel. Jack, I will follow your procedure after I complete a couple of experiments. I tried something interesting today that I plan to investigate further. I acted like a manual switch for a couple of nickels where I reversed the DC current periodically to see how the coatings behaved. I let current flow until the resistance reached about 50 ohms in one direction and then reversed the current until the same value was seen in the other direction. This procedure was carried out for about 5 cycles. Initially, a green coating was deposited upon the positively connected nickel which was then flaked off by the reverse current. A significant amount of green material was deposited within my electrolyte due to the cyclic coating and flaking. The AC was then applied and I noticed that very little gas was escaping from the electrodes even though a current of 1 to 2 amps was flowing. The resistance remained low during the AC testing which is in process as I write. The electrolyte evaporated twice to a level that had to be replenish as typical. This post is a quick update. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 25, 2012 11:33 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started Jack, that is just about right. On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Dave, You wrote: Chuck, have you given consideration to some process that might treat the CuB2O3 or NiB2O3 differently so that the copper might be taken away from the nickel surface selectively? It might be possible to selectively erode the copper leaving NAE in large quantities. I think you can get this with the oxidization process with using a nickel as the anode with DC for a couple of hours to form the green oxidized copper. The green oxidized copper can then be burned off with a torch. My approach has been to first use the nicked as an anode for 1 to 2 hours. Burn off the oxidized copper with a torch. Then slow treat with hydrogen as the cathode and low current DC for a few days. Then switch to AC. With respect to the B2O3, I've found that most of this will burn off. But I have some that simply melted into a transparent clear blob adhering to some of the surfaces of the nickels. Take care, Jack On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:10 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: Thanks Chuck, the experimentation has been going on now for a couple of days and I did notice unusual behavior that I was not expecting. I performed a small experiment using AC with new nickels that had not been undergoing electrolysis at any time and saw that they did not show any of the green coating that was so evident with DC. Instead, there was a jet black coating being formed upon the nickels. Then, I applied DC to my cell and a green coating began to form over top of the previous black coating upon the nickel connected to the positive terminal. I allowed this process to continue for a few hours and then scraped off the net coating to get a orange copperish looking finish where the old coatings were. This finish has a rough appearance. So far the bottom line is that AC drive behaves far differently than DC drive in this system. I can definitely see boiling electrolyte temperatures between the two nickels with AC drive while far fewer bubbles of gas are released by the active mechanisms as compared to DC drive. With AC, the effective resistance of the combination remains much lower than with DC current. The high resistance appears to correspond with the deposition of the green coating that follows DC current flow. My present transformer will not allow me to achieve the 100-140 volt drive levels so that would have to be achieved by some other means. I have a few ideas regarding the use of an adjustable transformer, but that would be difficult to handle. I do not feel comfortable with direct connection by metallic path to the AC mains. It would be too easy to become electrocuted with one careless maneuver. My AC RMS voltage is 21 volts for these tests so the resistance must remain less than 10 ohms between the terminals if I am to drive the system with 2 amps of current. I am able to achieve this goal without too much difficulty when the green coating is absent. I need to perform more experimentation with this combination. The salts you suspect are interesting. Do you suspect that the normal oxides of the nickel and copper are suppressed? Also, I am not aware of any visual change to the surface of the nickel if hydrogen has entered. Would anyone expect a color change or other indication when this happens? I would love to see the glow that Horace mentions and perhaps that day will come when I figure a good way to drive the cell in a safe manner. It is apparent that I will need to pre-charge the nickels before applying the full voltage unless I want to melt my experiment. If I used my typical resistance of 10 ohms and set the input AC to 100 volts RMS, I would generate 1000 watts of power at a current of 10 amps. I wonder if the sparks I saw with the sodium carbonate were somehow related to the glow mentioned by Horace. My results were correlated with the open circuit voltage rising toward 50 volts as it attempted to maintain the current at a constant level. The sparks suggest to me some form of burning mechanism and I got a large dose of the vapor by accident once when watching the phenomena too closely. It was a strong odor that I hope is not carcinogenic. The smoke I breathed was definitely not water vapor. Chuck, have you given consideration to some process that might treat the CuB2O3 or NiB2O3 differently so that the copper might be taken away from the nickel surface selectively? It might be possible to selectively erode the copper leaving NAE in large quantities. Dave P.S. AC in my posting is standard line frequency in the US which is 60 hertz. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 25, 2012 12:02 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started Good Luck with the new experiments David. I think you will see some interesting effects. Regarding the sparks and light flashes, I ran across a paper that describes an spark effect, but it was seen in the 100-140Volt range. Horace Heffner describes it in his paper; http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GlowExper.pdf It could be that the local electric potential is large enough that the sparkle effect happens. Anyway, with the AC, do try the DC pre-charging. If there is a true LENR effect, I would think this is one of the better ways of see it. The pre-charging might allow coating of the cupronickel with B2O3 which Mile's hints was one method of rapid LENR in his youtube video. In addition, as Storm's has suggested, you might pre-fill the lattice dislocations. Once the AC begins, hopefully you will see a robust heating effect. With AC, you should see the Na2[B4O5(OH)4] oscillating back and forth, and swarms of H+ push through the Cu-Ni B4O5(OH)4 surface. I found some old notes, that indicated in DC, the green salts could be CuB2O3 and darker salts as NiB2O3. See if you can spot a glow too. Maybe it's Cherenkov radiation. Anyway, Have fun. It's been interesting to see how much more bizarre this little experiment gets. Chuck On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 8:54 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: It is time for a change in my experimentation. I spent a lot of time and energy with the sodium carbonate electrolyte and DC current without being able to report any proven excess power. There is evidence that the Borax electrolyte might lead to more definitive results so that is what I began using again today. Earlier I started using Borax after finding that table salt was a terribly corrosive material. I used the Borax for several days as it slowly ate away at my positively connected electrodes before I decided to go to the sodium carbonate. I stuck with the sodium carbonate for so long since I was mainly concerned about the hydrogen loading of the cathode which should have been similar with either electrolyte. Today, I rewound a transformer to yield 21 volts AC RMS. This is an ideal way to drive the system with AC since the transformer automatically isolates it from the AC mains and leads to a safe experiment. I am using 21 volts because that is all I obtained with the transformer core with which I started when I placed as many turns as possible (36) in the secondary slot with the wire size that was convenient. I was worried that this might not be enough voltage, but found that I could still drive the cell with between 1 and 2 amps RMS depending upon the spacing between the electrodes. The joule losses within the transformer are quite low and it is in no danger of overheating. The cell is receiving around 40 watts of power which is within reason. I am using a Pyrex dish for my cell, the same one that I have been using for several days. It is open and wide so the cell temperature is fairly low due to large heat loss. I am curious as to whether or not I get the strange sparks that seemed so prevalent with my earlier DC system. I have noticed that there is a lot less gas being released at the electrodes due to the AC drive current. The AC drive current does not appear to cause the green deposits that were so evident with the DC current. I initially allowed the green mess to be plated upon one of the test nickels attached to the positive DC supply connection. After a period of time the green material was shaken off and a dark deposit replaced it as the current increased. I do not know what material is plating that nickel, but it allows for good conductivity. I placed my old reliable nickel on the other electrode for the AC testing. The poor nickel has been undergoing electrolysis for many days, has been heated red hot and quenched 5 times, has been soaked in a mild acid for a couple of days, and then sanded to roughen its surface. I am not sure what else I can do to make it more miserable! Dave
