David,
Good question … and yes - nature provides us with a few clues. Without getting into anything proprietary – you need only look at the oceans of earth for the source you are asking about. In effect – “hydronium” is a component of water and represents a free source of protons – albeit transitory. The hydronium ion is a cation H3O+ formed naturally- is the result of temporary protonation. The pH of the oceans represents the free protons available, and it is gigatons at any given moment. The emphasis there is on “at any given moment”. :-) So far, attempts to harvest hydronium have been in the easy ways have been futile – that goes without saying, since we are still burning oil. That may not be the case with advancing technology. Note that while hydrogen as a gas is diamagnetic, the proton is intensely magnetic. The important point is that QM (nature) can provide protons which are essentially “free”. It is up to inventors to find a cost effective way to harvest them. From: David Roberson Jones, I can see how the 13.6 eV of energy would be very substantially larger than the normal burning of hydrogen at 1.4 eV as you mention. My problem with this concept arises when I try to find the original source of the 13.6 eV of energy. Clearly, free hydrogen is available to burn with oxygen delivering the 1.4 eV since it exists in nature with the energy stored ahead of time. But the 13.6 eV you mention is nowhere to be found until the electron is stripped away from the proton in the initial phase. Do you know of a source for stripped protons that can be obtained without that input of energy? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 10:53 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Chemonuclear Transitions ..... This ostensibly non-nuclear but supra-chemical gain is available because of the Rydberg value of mass-energy of 13.6 eV for hydrogen. This basically represents the energy which is obtainable from a proton capturing an electron, and it is astronomically high, so to speak. I do not know if this extreme value has ever been conclusively seen except in Space. Since protons in Space are more common than any other form of mass out there - UV spectroscopy can be used to pick up this signature everywhere we look - but closer to home it is harder to see the strongest Rydberg evidence. In stark contrast to this 13.6 eV Rydberg value, the highest amount of chemical energy that can be obtained practically from burning hydrogen in oxygen is about 1.4 eV and seldom does that happen (it is a rough equivalence to 14,000 degrees K). A figure of about half that represents practical reality as seen in rocketry. In short, as you can see instantly from comparing 13.6 eV to 1.4 eV or less - that hydrogen without combustion would offer an easy (but not naïve) way to achieve a COP of ~10 ... if (big IF) ... we can simply engineer a proton conductor which is not electrically conductive - to occasionally allow the full transition energy of a free electron capture. Thus Mills, or LENR, needs little else, other than nascent hydrogen magic in order to show high gain (COP ~10) and to do it ostensibly through only chemistry. After all, chemistry is also {mass to energy conversion} in one perspective, so we are really talking semantics with nascent hydrogen being non-nuclear. There is a way that it can be both. More on those details later, Jones
