it seems not to work, but http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/ and public paper link http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/1/10-pub.pdf works better
2013/2/10 Kevin O'Malley <[email protected]> > Edmund Storms [email protected] > via<http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=mail&answer=1311182> > eskimo.com > 11:45 AM (15 hours ago) > to vortex-l > > Edmund Storms <https://plus.google.com/u/0/112904824327993917962?prsrc=4> > writes: > Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero > while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. > > ***What about KP Sinha’s Laser experiment in LENR ? > > Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear > reactions in deuterated palladium > http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf > > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: >> >> Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems >> indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a >> hot system will not. >> >> >> Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what >> Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as >> the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various >> conditions. >> >> >> How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? >> >> >> It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent >> potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in >> an open system that allows entropy to be removed. >> >> >> Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by >> using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of >> scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. >> >> >> Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected >> from the system. >> >> >> In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling >> elements in the formation of clusters. >> >> >> Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero >> while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. >> >> >> Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral >> molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous >> state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely >> separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of >> attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their >> kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules >> must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. >> >> >> As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and >> the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion >> slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the >> molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred >> individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules >> surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an >> assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a >> liquid or a solid. >> >> Three common ways exist to produce clusters: >> >> a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for >> cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare >> gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. >> When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is >> started. >> >> >> b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy >> particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. >> The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. >> Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present >> rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation >> is achieved >> >> >> c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded >> adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. >> >> >> In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of >> the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites >> containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy >> produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal >> lattice. >> >> >> This description has no justification in theory or in observation. >> Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice. >> >> >> If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation >> produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice >> and escape as gamma rays. >> >> >> I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment. >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> >> Cheers: Axil >> >> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Lou, >>> >>> Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being >>> concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is >>> dissipated. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product >>> breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions >>> required to conserve momentum. This is called hot fusion and it is well >>> known and understood. >>> >>> In contrast, during cold fusion the fusion product does not fragment. It >>> remains as He, but without the gamma emission as is required to dissipate >>> the energy. To be consistent with this observation, a theory MUST explain >>> how this nuclear energy is dissipated. Simply proposing a process to >>> overcome the barrier without showing how the next step violates normal >>> behavior is not useful in explaining cold fusion. The Maimon theory is ok >>> if it is used to explain hot fusion because this is what would be expected >>> and what has been observed when tunneling conditions have been created. >>> People have to accept that hot fusion and cold fusion are two entirely >>> different phenomenon that play by different rules. Confusion keeps being >>> produced by trying to mix these two different effects. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> Ed, >>>> >>>> I assume you are referring to Maimon's theory, which I am not familiar >>>> with. >>>> >>>> When you say "the expected reaction is hot fusion", are you only >>>> referring to highly energetic collisions? >>>> >>>> Do you think the theory X.Z.Li, et al, involving resonant tunneling >>>> (at low kinetic energy), allegedly avoiding energetic byproducts, might >>>> be correct? Some references -- >>>> >>>> "Deuterium (Hydrogen) Flux Permeating through Palladium and Condensed >>>> Matter Nuclear Science" >>>> http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.**edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/** >>>> acrobat/WeiQdeuteriumh.pdf<http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/WeiQdeuteriumh.pdf> >>>> "A Chinese view on summary of condensed matter nuclear science" >>>> http://166.111.26.4/**JOFE2004Sept.Vol23No3P217.pdf<http://166.111.26.4/JOFE2004Sept.Vol23No3P217.pdf> >>>> "Fusion energy without strong nuclear radiation" >>>> http://www.springerlink.com/**index/w4721655219541kk.pdf<http://www.springerlink.com/index/w4721655219541kk.pdf> >>>> "Multiple Scattering Theory (MST) and Condensed Matter Nuclear >>>> Science—“Super-Absorption” in a Crystal Lattice—" >>>> http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.**edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/** >>>> acrobat/LiXZmultiplesc.pdf<http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/LiXZmultiplesc.pdf> >>>> >>>> I am agnostic on this topic, and am very interested in your view. >>>> >>>> -- Lou Pagnucco >>>> >>>> The problem Eric is that once the math is solved, the expected nuclear >>>>> reaction is hot fusion, not cold fusion. Consequently, this effort is >>>>> a waste of time. This is something the hot fusion field needs to >>>>> understand to explain the effect of bombarding materials with >>>>> energetic deuterons. The effort has no application to cold fusion. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ed >>>>> On Feb 9, 2013, at 9:13 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Eric, >>>>>> >>>>>> It's good to hear Ron Maimon is trying to develop this theory. >>>>>> >>>>>> But, the math is truly confusing, bewildering and intimidating - >>>>>> even to formulate the problem, let alone solve it. >>>>>> When composite particles are involved, calculating tunneling >>>>>> probability >>>>>> is almost intractable - even in free space, much less in condensed >>>>>> matter. >>>>>> >>>>>> A recent paper on composite particle tunneling - >>>>>> "Tunneling of a molecule with many bound states in three dimensions" >>>>>> http://iopscience.iop.org/**0953-4075/46/4/045201<http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/4/045201> >>>>>> (free - with registration) >>>>>> - (and, the many references it cites) shows how tricky this is. >>>>>> There are some related papers on arxiv.org too. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the case of LENR, I think the empirical trumps the theoretical. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Lou Pagnucco >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Eric Walker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave- >>>>>>> functions, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, >>>>>>>> nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function >>>>>>>> focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability >>>>>>>> by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave- >>>>>>>> functions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ron Maimon was getting at a similar idea by having two deuterons >>>>>>> meet near >>>>>>> a palladium spectator nucleus, at the classical turning point where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> strength of the positive charge of the palladium nucleus would push >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> positively charged deuterons back out again. With 20 keV of initial >>>>>>> kinetic energy, the deuterons would penetrate the electron shells >>>>>>> as far >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> the K shell before turning around again. At the turning point >>>>>>> their de >>>>>>> Broglie waves would be "enhanced,", or, presumably, focused, and as a >>>>>>> result overlap and tunneling would be more likely. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Several significant difficulties with this approach were raised >>>>>>> which have >>>>>>> not yet been brought to Ron's attention. Presumably he would set us >>>>>>> straight on what I misunderstood of what he was saying. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >
