*The basic questions are, Why does the laser effect work when the surface is covered with gold so that the PdD was not actually exposed to the laser and why does a single laser work sometimes and a duel laser is required at other times? * If you want to understand LENR, you must understand how clusters, cluster ionization, and cluster explosion concentrate charge separation.
Laser irradiation of clusters produce high charge separation and resultant concentrations of electrons through the production of x-rays, and resultant high energy electrons via gainful cluster explosion. www.ph.utexas.edu/~tditmire/papers/TD27.pdf Solid targets, on the other hand, often exhibit very large laser energy absorption. The use of solids as targets for intense lasers has successfully produced both photons and particles with energies up to the MeV range Because of the strong absorption mechanisms in a solid density plasma, such as collisional heating, resonance absorption, and various plasma instabilities, significant fractions of the laser pulse energy ~.10% can be deposited into the plasma. The hot plasmas that result will emit copious amounts of x rays. Conversion efficiency of nearly 1% of laser light into x rays in the 1-keV photon energy range has been demonstrated. *Here is how gold coating increase LENR activity* This conversion efficiency can be increased to 10% when the surface of the target is coated with a layer of porous gold-black, which is composed of individual 100-Å clusters of gold. This gold-black was shown to be much more efficient at absorbing the incident laser energy than conventional flat gold targets due to the large surface to volume ratio of the gold clusters. Strong soft-x-ray yields have also been obtained when C60 molecules are illuminated with a short-pulse KrF laser , suggesting that the large laser energy absorption observed with gold-black targets also occurs when large molecules are the target media. High-pressure gas jets produce a unique combination of both gas and solid phase components. Solid density clusters form in the jet, resulting from the cooling associated with the adiabatic expansion of the gas into vacuum. This cooling causes the gas to supersaturate and nucleate. Under appropriate conditions, when the gas jet backing pressure exceeds a few atmospheres, the clusters formed in the expanding jet can be quite large ~10exp4 atoms per cluster! for gases such as Ar, Kr, N2 , and Xe. Cheers: Axil On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]>wrote: > Everyone seems to have an explanation of the laser effect. I think all > agree that the laser can stimulate energy states in the surface. What these > states do to initiate LENR is the big question. > > Hagelstein proposes that the laser stimulates phonons that initiate a > fusion reaction in metal atom vacancies containing extra D. He assumes that > metal vacancies are present, that several D can occupy this space, that > these D vibrate thereby losing energy as phonons to eventually fuse without > residual energy. The laser is proposed to stimulate phonon states in the > PdD lattice, which are assumed to increase this process if the laser has > the correct frequency. > > Sinha and Meulenberg have different explanation. They propose creation of > a deuteron surrounded by two electrons (D-), which is energetically > impossible in PdD. They avoid this problem simply by calling the D- a > boson. They propose a structure consisting of D-_D+ can exist without > forming a normal D2 molecule and this structure has a lower barrier than > present in D2. They propose that the laser affects the two electrons in the > D-_D+ structure in ways that can lower the barrier. They do not explain why > hot fusion does not result from this process, which would be expected, > instead of cold fusion. > > The basic questions are, Why does the laser effect work when the surface > is covered with gold so that the PdD was not actually exposed to the laser > and why does a single laser work sometimes and a duel laser is required at > other times? Neither paper answers these questions using consistent logic. > Neither paper explains why the effect works just as well with or without > the laser. In other words, I see no experimental need to propose that > phonons or polarons play any essential role other than provide extra energy > to an unknown process that is already underway. > > Yes, clusters must form because the D must accumulate in one spot in order > to react. Yes, cracks or voids provide the only energetically favorable > place where this can occur. What happens next is the big question. Simply > introducing the concept of the boson provides no useful information. As > Jones very completely pointed out, everything can be a boson. > > Ed > > > > On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote: > > it seems not to work, but > http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/ > and public paper link > http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/1/10-pub.pdf > works better > > 2013/2/10 Kevin O'Malley <[email protected]> > >> Edmund Storms [email protected] >> via<http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=mail&answer=1311182> >> eskimo.com >> 11:45 AM (15 hours ago) >> to vortex-l >> >> Edmund Storms<https://plus.google.com/u/0/112904824327993917962?prsrc=4> >> writes: >> Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero >> while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. >> >> ***What about KP Sinha’s Laser experiment in LENR ? >> >> Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear >> reactions in deuterated palladium >> http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >>> On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: >>> >>> Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems >>> indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a >>> hot system will not. >>> >>> >>> Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is >>> what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is >>> reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation >>> under various conditions. >>> >>> >>> How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? >>> >>> >>> It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent >>> potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in >>> an open system that allows entropy to be removed. >>> >>> >>> Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by >>> using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of >>> scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. >>> >>> >>> Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are >>> rejected from the system. >>> >>> >>> In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling >>> elements in the formation of clusters. >>> >>> >>> Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero >>> while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. >>> >>> >>> Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral >>> molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous >>> state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely >>> separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of >>> attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their >>> kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules >>> must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. >>> >>> >>> As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and >>> the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion >>> slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the >>> molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred >>> individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules >>> surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an >>> assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a >>> liquid or a solid. >>> >>> Three common ways exist to produce clusters: >>> >>> a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for >>> cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare >>> gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. >>> When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is >>> started. >>> >>> >>> b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy >>> particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. >>> The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. >>> Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present >>> rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation >>> is achieved >>> >>> >>> c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded >>> adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. >>> >>> >>> In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion >>> of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites >>> containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy >>> produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal >>> lattice. >>> >>> >>> This description has no justification in theory or in observation. >>> Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice. >>> >>> >>> If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the >>> radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold >>> lattice and escape as gamma rays. >>> >>> >>> I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers: Axil >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Lou, >>>> >>>> Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being >>>> concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is >>>> dissipated. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product >>>> breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions >>>> required to conserve momentum. This is called hot fusion and it is well >>>> known and understood. >>>> >>>> In contrast, during cold fusion the fusion product does not fragment. >>>> It remains as He, but without the gamma emission as is required to >>>> dissipate the energy. To be consistent with this observation, a theory >>>> MUST explain how this nuclear energy is dissipated. Simply proposing a >>>> process to overcome the barrier without showing how the next step violates >>>> normal behavior is not useful in explaining cold fusion. The Maimon theory >>>> is ok if it is used to explain hot fusion because this is what would be >>>> expected and what has been observed when tunneling conditions have been >>>> created. People have to accept that hot fusion and cold fusion are two >>>> entirely different phenomenon that play by different rules. Confusion >>>> keeps being produced by trying to mix these two different effects. >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>> Ed, >>>>> >>>>> I assume you are referring to Maimon's theory, which I am not familiar >>>>> with. >>>>> >>>>> When you say "the expected reaction is hot fusion", are you only >>>>> referring to highly energetic collisions? >>>>> >>>>> Do you think the theory X.Z.Li, et al, involving resonant tunneling >>>>> (at low kinetic energy), allegedly avoiding energetic byproducts, might >>>>> be correct? Some references -- >>>>> >>>>> "Deuterium (Hydrogen) Flux Permeating through Palladium and Condensed >>>>> Matter Nuclear Science" >>>>> http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.**edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/** >>>>> acrobat/WeiQdeuteriumh.pdf<http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/WeiQdeuteriumh.pdf> >>>>> "A Chinese view on summary of condensed matter nuclear science" >>>>> http://166.111.26.4/**JOFE2004Sept.Vol23No3P217.pdf<http://166.111.26.4/JOFE2004Sept.Vol23No3P217.pdf> >>>>> "Fusion energy without strong nuclear radiation" >>>>> http://www.springerlink.com/**index/w4721655219541kk.pdf<http://www.springerlink.com/index/w4721655219541kk.pdf> >>>>> "Multiple Scattering Theory (MST) and Condensed Matter Nuclear >>>>> Science—“Super-Absorption” in a Crystal Lattice—" >>>>> http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.**edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/** >>>>> acrobat/LiXZmultiplesc.pdf<http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/LiXZmultiplesc.pdf> >>>>> >>>>> I am agnostic on this topic, and am very interested in your view. >>>>> >>>>> -- Lou Pagnucco >>>>> >>>>> The problem Eric is that once the math is solved, the expected nuclear >>>>>> reaction is hot fusion, not cold fusion. Consequently, this effort is >>>>>> a waste of time. This is something the hot fusion field needs to >>>>>> understand to explain the effect of bombarding materials with >>>>>> energetic deuterons. The effort has no application to cold fusion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ed >>>>>> On Feb 9, 2013, at 9:13 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Eric, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's good to hear Ron Maimon is trying to develop this theory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But, the math is truly confusing, bewildering and intimidating - >>>>>>> even to formulate the problem, let alone solve it. >>>>>>> When composite particles are involved, calculating tunneling >>>>>>> probability >>>>>>> is almost intractable - even in free space, much less in condensed >>>>>>> matter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A recent paper on composite particle tunneling - >>>>>>> "Tunneling of a molecule with many bound states in three dimensions" >>>>>>> http://iopscience.iop.org/**0953-4075/46/4/045201<http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/4/045201> >>>>>>> (free - with registration) >>>>>>> - (and, the many references it cites) shows how tricky this is. >>>>>>> There are some related papers on arxiv.org too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the case of LENR, I think the empirical trumps the theoretical. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Lou Pagnucco >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eric Walker wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave- >>>>>>>> functions, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, >>>>>>>>> nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function >>>>>>>>> focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability >>>>>>>>> by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave- >>>>>>>>> functions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ron Maimon was getting at a similar idea by having two deuterons >>>>>>>> meet near >>>>>>>> a palladium spectator nucleus, at the classical turning point where >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> strength of the positive charge of the palladium nucleus would push >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> positively charged deuterons back out again. With 20 keV of initial >>>>>>>> kinetic energy, the deuterons would penetrate the electron shells >>>>>>>> as far >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> the K shell before turning around again. At the turning point >>>>>>>> their de >>>>>>>> Broglie waves would be "enhanced,", or, presumably, focused, and as >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> result overlap and tunneling would be more likely. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Several significant difficulties with this approach were raised >>>>>>>> which have >>>>>>>> not yet been brought to Ron's attention. Presumably he would set us >>>>>>>> straight on what I misunderstood of what he was saying. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >
