OK, you are mistaken with this analysis. The input power is determined by the AC 50/60 hertz fundamental and the fundamental component of the current flowing from the wall socket. The DC just comes along for the ride since it is converted from some of the input AC power.
And yes, you can measure accurately the input power with a good instrument that does not measure the DC component. I can explain further if you like. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Duncan Cumming <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 2:11 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments What I am proposing is a lot simpler than that. No bridge rectifier, no capacitor, just a simple diode. I am saying that given a diode in series with a resistor, it is not possible to measure the power using a clamp on ammeter. I am not suggesting that anybody has performed a scam. I am suggesting that the equipment used would not have measured the power consumed by the resistor if rectification were present in the controller box. Is there anybody reading this that can do SPICE simulations? Might it be possible to simulate a resistor in series with a diode and determine the actual and apparent power if an AC coupled current meter is used? Duncan P.S. I never mentioned either bridge rectifiers or capacitors. In the case of a bridge rectifier type power supply, then a clamp on ammeter will work OK. I do not suspect such a thing in the demo. On 5/26/2013 7:35 PM, David Roberson wrote: Assume that you have a bridge rectifier in the blue box. This is followed by a filtering capacitor. The DC is then used by the electronics connected to the capacitor. Are you saying that it is not possible to determine the power input to this type of network by measuring the input AC voltage and current? Or are you saying that someone has performed a scam and put a DC supply in series with the normal AC voltage? You do know that this could easily be measured by a simple DC voltmeter, right? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Duncan Cumming <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, May 26, 2013 10:01 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments Almost. The power being fed to the heater exceeds that measured at the wall, because the sensor used (an AC current clamp) cannot sense the direct current being drawn from the wall socket. Some people find the difference between current and voltage confusing. What I am saying here is that if you connect a resistor in series with a diode to a wall socket, then the CURRENT drawn is direct even though the VOLTAGE at the socket is alternating. (Rossi does not seem to understand this concept judging by his message that got posted today). So unless you use a DC rated current meter (such as a shunt) you will not sense all of the current, and hence power, drawn from the wall socket. The electrical power meter in your house certainloy IS rated for DC, so you will certainly be BILLED for the power even though you didn't measure it yourself! V = IR Power = Voltage * Current * Power Factor Duncan On 5/26/2013 5:57 PM, Eric Walker wrote: I wrote: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Duncan Cumming <[email protected]> wrote: I am not trying to assert anything as fact. I am merely pointing out that a simple diode inside the controller box (to which access was forbidden by Rossi) COULD HAVE given the observed results. I am NOT saying that it, in fact, did, merely speculating that it could have. Am I right in understanding that this line of reasoning requires tampering with the mains itself, where the electrical measurements were made, in addition to any sly customizations that might have been made at the controller? I think I'm starting to understand. This is a separate line of reasoning to the one about the possibility of hidden DC and RF passing undetected through the clamp meters at the mains. In this line of reasoning, the duty cycle (35 percent ON) is misunderstood, and there is a hidden DC component from the controller delivering power to the E-Cat, but not above what was read from the wall -- am I describing this right? Eric
