Bob, 23.8 MeV of energy must be released for each He made. Each emitted He4 from Be8 needs to carry 23.8 MeV of energy. Please explain how even a small fraction of that energy can appear as spin.
When alpha particles pass through material, a series of nuclear reactions can occur that emit radiation. In addition, bremsstrahlung radiation is emitted as the alpha slows down. Hagelstrin describes these processes in the papers I attached previously. I suggest you read them. Ed On Mar 5, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Bob Cook wrote: > Ed-- > > You said: > > >However, the resulting alpha would have too much energy for the secondary > >radiation to be missed.< > > If the alphas are in high spin states upon the decomposition of Be-8, then > small amounts of energy associated with transition from one state to the next > lower state would never be seen. If many electrons are involved in the > reaction it seems likely only small energy packets would be released. The > secondary radiation may be missed. > > Why do you imply the secondary radiation should necessarily be a high energy > photon(s)? > > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Edmund Storms > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Cc: Edmund Storms > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Christopher H. Cooper" > > > On Mar 5, 2014, at 3:45 PM, David Roberson wrote: > >> Ed, I was not suggesting that this reaction is the main one, I was merely >> pointing out that it is possible. Someone made a blanket statement that >> this path was not possible and I wanted to clear the air. > > Dave, none of us has the time to describe every aspect of the issue in each > e-mail. We all have to assume the reader has done some homework and knows > that the statement is not complete and that the writer also know this. In > any case, emission of a photon makes the process two body, not one body as I > was describing. > >> The conservation of energy and momentum does not prevent this from happening >> as was stated. Had the original proposition been that it was not likely or >> observed I would have remained silent. > > The fact is that during cold fusion NO energetic gamma is emitted, which was > known in 1989. Therefore, this issue is not relevant. People propose the He4 > is emitted as an alpha, which means the helium has translational energy. This > is not possible when one particle is involved, which is what I said. > Takahashi proposes Be8 forms and decomposes into two alpha, which does > conserve energy and momentum and is not inconsistent with the basic > requirements. However, the resulting alpha would have too much energy for the > secondary radiation to be missed. Therefore, this proposed reaction does not > occur. Each theory suggested so far can be eliminated by identifying these > conflicts with observation. If the observations were not so many and so > strong, a person might conclude that LENR is impossible, which of course is > the skeptical conclusion. Nevertheless, the effect is real and therefore it > must have an explanation. Until people actually search where the keys are > located rather than under the lamppost, success will be impossible. > > Ed Storms >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> >> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >> Cc: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> >> Sent: Wed, Mar 5, 2014 5:29 pm >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Christopher H. Cooper" >> >> Yes Dave, that is true, but that is not what is observed. This reaction is >> known to happen less than 1% of the time during hot fusion and it produces a >> 23 MeV gamma that is required to conserve momentum. This reaction is clearly >> not observed. We know this for a fact. Therefore, this idea is irrelevant. >> >> Ed Storms >> On Mar 5, 2014, at 2:34 PM, David Roberson wrote: >> >>> Ed, the energy can be released in the form of a particle, such as an alpha, >>> and a gamma ray. Energy and momentum can be conserved in that manner. The >>> bulk of the energy will be given to the gamma ray due to the large >>> difference in masses. Think of a rifle firing a bullet. Most of the >>> energy ends up in the bullet while linear momentum is conserved. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> >>> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >>> Cc: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> >>> Sent: Wed, Mar 5, 2014 4:09 pm >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Christopher H. Cooper" >>> >>> Bob, we are discussing a basic and fundamental concept. The energy >>> generated when mass-energy is released requires emission of at least two >>> particles for the energy to be dissipated. I know of no example in nature >>> where this requirement does not operate when energy is released. If energy >>> is not released immediately, but is retained in the nucleus, this nucleus >>> is found to be unstable and will eventually release energy over a period of >>> time by emission of a particle, including a photon. This is how nature is >>> found to behave. Imagining otherwise is not useful unless you have observed >>> support for the idea. >>> >>> Ed Storms >>> >>> >>> On Mar 5, 2014, at 2:01 PM, Bob Cook wrote: >>> >>>> Ed-- >>>> >>>> You said: >>>> >>>> >>Yes, that is what I'm saying. LENR can not result in a single alpha >>>> >>because two particles are required to conserve momentum when energy is >>>> >>released. << >>>> >>>> I note that, if there is no linear momentum to start, two particles would >>>> not be required. I do not believe conservation of angular momentum >>>> requires two particles either. And keep in mind that potential energy may >>>> be changed to the energy of angular momentum/spin energy in LENR. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Edmund Storms >>>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>> Cc: Edmund Storms >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 12:06 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:"Christopher H. Cooper" >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 5, 2014, at 12:28 PM, Jones Beene wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Edmund Storms >>>>> >>>>> Jones, bremsstrahlung or "slowing down radiation" is not >>>>> produced by photons. >>>>> >>>>> Who said it was? >>>> >>>> I'm not answering a claim. I'm simply giving information. You brought up >>>> photons by talking about gamma emissions, which are photons. You then >>>> added the production of bremsstrahlung, which I simply pointed out is not >>>> produced by gamma. >>>> >>>>> You brought up photons. I asked for adequate documentation >>>>> of intense photon emission - and am still waiting. >>>> >>>> I sent a list of references. If you want a copy of a particular paper to >>>> read, ask and I will send what I have. Unfortunately, I can not send >>>> using Vortex and I can not send all the papers. >>>>> >>>>> This is generated by energetic electrons or particles such >>>>> as alpha emission. LENR produces neither kind of radiation. >>>>> >>>>> What? Are you now saying that the helium you claim to see in Pd-D does not >>>>> begin as an alpha particles? >>>> >>>> Yes, that is what I'm saying. LENR can not result in a single alpha >>>> because two particles are required to conserve momentum when energy is >>>> released. >>>>> >>>>> Therefore, bremsstrahlung is not an issue because all the >>>>> mass-energy is dissipated as photons. >>>>> >>>>> There is no proof of this. >>>> >>>> The proof is in the behavior. This is the only conclusion consistent with >>>> all behavior. Unfortunately, a book is required to present this >>>> information in a form and as complete as you require. I'm attempting to do >>>> this. Please be patient. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> The only question is how this happens. I have proposed a >>>>> mechanism. The only issue is whether this mechanism is plausible and >>>>> consistent will all the other observations. >>>>> >>>>> It is not plausible if you cannot document photons sufficient to account >>>>> for >>>>> the heat. >>>> >>>> I agree, the measurement of heat and radiation have not been done in a way >>>> to show a quantitative correlation. However, I suggest you apply this >>>> standard to the other explanations as well. If you do, I think you will >>>> have to agree that no explanation meeting this requirements presently >>>> exists, including your own. >>>> >>>> Ed Storms >>>>> >>>>> Where is the documentation? >>>>> >>>>> Jones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <winmail.dat> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >
