Hello Nick,
on 08-Feb-01 you wrote :
...snipp[...]
> You speak English right?
Sometimes I'm not quite sure whether I do or not... ;-)
...snipp[your 'OK'-example]
Oh, that's a through ball for us germans,
because we had such a discussion in the
recent years when the famous 'new german
orthography' was introduced.
Please look, listen and understand:
(I'm not pushing you to agree ;-))
a. You can't compare spoken language with computer language
in that way, because a computer is a machine, although some
users might act as it weren't.
And because it's a machine it can do things only schematic,
but keeping in mind that these schemes are often very complex.
So there have to be (strict) rules for telling a computer
what and how things have to done.
(This also is right for HTML!)
And the problem with 'not understandable tags', respectively
unkown phrases, is also known in human languages, e.g.
slang, improper orthography,.... (that's the reason
dictionaries were invented!)
The fact that the problem in human languages isn't that
serious relies on ability of humans to react flexible,
e.g. taking a dictionary from the shelf, expanding one's
knowledge, asking someone else,.......
(Because also nowadays computer have lack of this ability
we have to have strict rules in that respect.)
See, the wonderful(???) english language is widely
spread around the world, and this works, because
there exist dictionaries which define what set of
words should be used, so that everyone get's the
point one's refering about.
If you don't ahere to this, you can't expect
that everyone interprets and understands your
wisely words in the way you ment them.
b. Your example exactly shows the way things have to be handled.
AFAIR at the beginning of the last century, or maybe
already at the end of the 19th century, the word 'OK' was
unkown. But because of a guy who was working at Ford and had to
check the outgoin' cars/part of cars at one of the first
known assembly lines, he was marking the checked parts
with his initials: O.K. Later there was a variation
in writing, respectively 'okay'.
Sometimes it's unpredictable how things will develop,
so the word spread, and it was established in spoken
american english, and later on also world wide.
Well and now the more interesting part, as this happended
the responsible commitees/organisations decided to
include the words 'OK', 'O.K.' and 'okay' in the
official specification for the language, e.g. it's
listed in the dictionaries.
(And that's what I also was refering to my last e-mail,
if the tag becomes widely used and accepted, the W3
commitee will mention it in the upcoming specs of HTML.
But I don't see that's the way it'll go, because 'middle'
is obsolet!)
> What would you rather? A browser which only supports strict
> HTML 4 guidelines, or one which does that and also accepts
> non-standard tags.
If you read my first e-mail attentive, you can answer this
question for yourself.
(If not read it again, or ask ;-)
> I aggree it's regretable and stupid that IE allows non-standard
> tags; worse that other people - ignorant of the standards - use
> them. But while they do, why not support them?
No, and if MS (or whoever) defines 1+1=3, and those
ignorant people accept it, we have to change the whole
math, should we? ;-)
...snipp[...]
>> If MS decides to introduce the tag 'amid', ok not widely used
>> in spoken english, should V³ support it also?
> Forget the fact that MS have introduced it, is it widely used
> by people doing the coding?
No it isn't.
It's used by people using those Web-Tools/HTML-Editors,
not knowing what they're doin'.
I'm not aware of anyone, who's coding HTML/JS/XML
in the old fashion professional way, who's using this tag.
>> Do you expect that a ANSI C program will be compiled
>> correctly, if you use 'elseif' instead of 'else if' or 'elif'?
>> No, I don't. Do you expect a plain-TeX run performs without
>> problems when using '\middle' instead of '\centerline'?
> No coder should use non-standard tags. But while they do we
> might as well be able to interpret them.
But in 'normal' computer languages they're not accepted,
you end up with an error message, and that's alright!
>> by establishing 'pseuso'-improvements/standards they
>> intentional produce incompatibilities so that,
>> if enough people use the product, there exists a
>> dependence ..., ...,
> Except that if V supports these, then we have broken the
> dependance on IE. Hoorah.
Or, see it the other way round.
You're making V³ bit by bit similar to IE,
and might end up with an IE-clone. ;-)
Or, even show one has a backbone,
not willin' to support non standards
or doubtful 'pseudo'-standards.
(See Linux!)
To make it clear, for me it's not a problem
if it's MS with IE, NS with NC, whoever with whatever,
it's a basic problem and attitude of computer usage
and understanding.
>> And don't forget: Replies please via PM.
>
> Sorry. This list is for discussions; I felt this was relevant.
Discussions? Yes, but V³ related, and IMHO it's a principal
question.
> But feel free to flame me privately.
Oh I won't flame you.
As we've all learned from the Enlightenment and the French
Revolution 'liberté, egalité, fraternité', resulting in e.g.
freedom of thoughts and speech. :-))
Regards
NR
--
Remark of the day :
Put not your trust in money,
but put your money in trust.
-
Amiga 2000 B/2060ERC - PicIV/Pic96 - 19" Iiyama S901GT
2/112 MB Chip/FastMem - 1x18.2 GB SCSI HD - 48 x SCSI CD-ROM
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