Interesting points, Jere. Aside from salmon and steelhead, what about
rainbow trout? I understand rainbows have not been planted in the Yakima
for years, but the fish that are there are now are progeny from hatchery
fish, but are considered wild.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: jcrosby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
>What has happened is the spawning of hatchery fish in the rivers. This is
>fairly common. They spawn at an earlier time frame than native fish, but
>some hatchery fish do spawn later in Mar. and it is those fish that
comprise
>the "wild" fish that we presently have in the river systems. The waters
are
>warmer at this time and provide food in the system for survival that the
>bulk of the hatchery fish do not have when they spawn in Jan. Summer-run,
>for some reason(summer hatchery fish) are more successful at successfully
>spawning in the river and they spawn at about the same time as winter
>hatchery fish. I'm close to the numbers on this, but can't remember
>exactly. It has been demonstrated that if you harvest 70% of the run for
5
>consecutive years, you effectively eliminate a native run of fish. We did
>that in the late 70's and '80's. Commercial netting combined with sport
>fishing effectively eliminated the possibility of true, native fish.
>However, a hatchery fish that successfully spawns and returns as a wild
fish
>is a full fledged wild fish as far as I am concerned. I have caught many
of
>them in the Sky and the Snoqualmie and they are incredibly fine fish and
>great fighters. Remember, any wild fish would have to adapt to the
>conditions as they are today anyway. We once thought that there was a good
>run of big, native fish in Nov. and Dec. and that these were
over-harvested.
>Once the game dept. began their fin-clip of hatchery fish, the natives
>disappeared. It was discovered these were 3 salt hatchery fish. The river
>where they thought the best opportunity to observe problems in genetics was
>on the Elochomen(sp?)
>It is a small river and at one time had a large population of both hatchery
>and wild. There proved to be little problem.
>The philosophical question is "Are there native fish in our rivers that are
>progeny of steelhead that were here 500 yrs ago, or longer?" Probably not,
>but it is academic to me. Do what we can to improve habitat and spawning
>conditions, let native fish go and implement good regulations during their
>spawning time and promote sport fishing! Hatchery fish were planted to
>harvest. Use good judgement and don't feel bad about keeping some. Jere
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Justin Teegarden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 5:21 PM
>Subject: Re: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
>
>
>> Hmm, Jere I'd have to find it again, but I am sure I read a few articles
>in "Salmon, Trout, Steelhead" about the problems of intermingling wild and
>Hatchery fish and how Wild fish are more of a thing of the past since most
>all fish now are from A: Hatcheries, or B: Wild fish intermingling and
>spawing with Hatchery fish. If this is not a good source, Ok. I thought
>that was one of the main reasons they wanted to make the Sandy river a
>"wild" only run and stop the hatchery and the fishing there altogether
>(Crazy, Agreed). You do bring up a good point. If they are both of the
>same stream/river originally, Then Genetics will stay the same if they do
>intermingle. I will have to look that up again.
>>
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:50:23 -0800 jcrosby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Most all of the studies done in recent years, much to the chagrin of
>those
>> >wanting to turn back the clock 1000 yrs or so, conclude that there is
>very
>> >little cross spawning and danger to the integrity of the wild fish
>> >(steelhead). The last major study done for the Columbia River and it's
>> >tributaries and somewhat north, concluded that it would take a very
small
>> >river and a considerable population of hatchery/native fish to cause any
>> >measurable danger to the genetic integrity of wild steelhead.
>> >It is commendable on the fly fisherman's part to take the lead in
>> >re-establishing wild runs of salmon and steelhead. Hatchery fish,
>however,
>> >make up a significant part of our fisheries. Sit down and list all the
>> >hatchery fish that provide sport for yourself. They make up the bulk of
>the
>> >fish that I pursue. There are those that use the endangered species act
>to
>> >shutdown sportfishing. There are also those that enlist the support of
>> >flyfishermen to give themselves credibility to eliminate, or reduce
>> >sportfishing and they are succeeding! I am finding more and more "lure"
>> >fisherman who are willing to release wild fish and even release hatchery
>> >fish that they do not want to eat, but they are interested in using
>common
>> >sense. Where there are no fish runs, or very weak runs, it makes sense
>to
>> >plant fish. The largest steelhead runs in the world, at this present
>time,
>> >are those that go up the Snake and the Clearwater River, a result of a
>> >hatchery program. They go over every dam on the Columbia!
>> >I, personally, release virtually all salmon and steelhead. I just do
not
>> >like to eat them. I have kept sockeye from the Lake WA. fishery. The
>other
>> >conclusion that I have come to is that water temp makes a great deal of
>> >difference in the fight of steelhead. The water temp., when hatchery
>fish
>> >return,(Dec.,Jan. Feb.) is colder than in Mar./Apr. when native fish
>return
>> >and the fish fight much more in warmer water. Hatchery summer runs can
>be
>> >awesome fighters and it is due to the water temp. Jere
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Justin Teegarden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 2:04 PM
>> >Subject: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
>> >
>> >
>> >> You can't ask for viewpoints on this subject without getting a
>difference
>> >of opinion. Wild fish I'll always let go if you can keep them or not
>> >(anadronamous). Hatchery fish, well that depends. To much to put down
>here
>> >on this viewpoint. I will keep Hatchery steelhead, Especially if they
>are
>> >trucking them back down to swim up 2 and 3 times. I don't think there
>are
>> >much "wild" fish left. I think the Hatchery and Wild Have
>> >intermingled for quit some time and to have a 100% pure wild fish is a
>bit
>> >on the fantasy side, but one thing is for sure, the color and fight, 9
>times
>> >out of 10, is twice as good as a hatchery fish. I also Keep Hatchery
>fish,
>> >because of my wife. IF I Bring home something she feels I'm not wasting
>my
>> >time. Go Figure. It is also nice to eat fresh fish every now and
again.
>> >>
>> >> I think I could go on and on here, but I'll stop and let others spill
>> >their viewpoints all over the board.
>> >>
>> >> Justin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:28:33 -0800 Sean Ransom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>> >> >Since I have started fly fishing I have not kept one fish I have
>caught.
>> >> >My main reason for this has been to do my part to preserve the
>dwindling
>> >> >supply of fish. I would never keep a wild fish of any species under
>any
>> >> >circumstances (even though I would like to sometimes).
>> >> >
>> >> >However I have recently read a few different viewpoints on hatchery
>> >> >fish. I am mainly talking about steelhead but salmon as well. I have
>> >> >heard that these fish are for the most part unable to spawn and
>> >> >fisherman are doing a service by removing them from the streams so
>they
>> >> >do not intermingle with the natives. I have also heard the viewpoint
>> >> >that all fish should be released whether they are native or not.
>> >> >
>> >> >I have no problem with folks who do keep fish and would like to
>justify
>> >> >keeping fish myself. I am interested in hearing some of the people on
>> >> >this boards viewpoints (without starting big debate or anything).
When
>> >> >it comes down to it it is a personal decision but am interested in
>your
>> >> >viewpoints. Also if anyone could recommend some reading material on
>the
>> >> >subject I would appreciate it.
>> >> >
>> >> >-sean
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Have you gotten your free email at fishing.com or flyfishing.com? I
>got
>> >mine, come get yours! Visit www.fishing.com or www.flyfishing.com to
>sign
>> >up!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Have you gotten your free email at fishing.com or flyfishing.com? I got
>mine, come get yours! Visit www.fishing.com or www.flyfishing.com to sign
>up!
>>
>>
>
