Need an example?
Look to Montana!
Stocking of running water ended there, statewide, some years ago.
Mother nature knows best!
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: jcrosby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 6:42 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
Absolutely wild and great fish! The biggest problem with
introducing
hatchery fish to a system where wild fish exist and have a
chance to reach
healthy numbers is the introduction of preditors. The Tern
problem on the
Columbia is a major problem. Merganser ducks will raise 2
and 3 broods if
the food source is there. Cormerants seem to know what a
hatchery truck
looks like and somehow find there way to Eastern WA.
Hatchery plants in
rivers migrate out quickly, but the residuals, and there
numbers can be
high, hangout in the quiet sections of the river with no
propensity to go
out and no instincts to avoid preditors.
Besides competing for food with wild fish, they attract
large numbers of
preditors. On the Snoqualmie, as some of you know,
Mergansers made a
rookery across the river from the hatchery at Tokul Creek.
There would be
75-100 birds in one Douglas Fir and they wiped out the
plants at the
hatchery ponds. A federal permit was eventually obtained
and many were
shot. This is what will destroy the wild trout in the
Yakima, or be the
major contributor. The introduction of hatchery fish here
is extensive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Embry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
> Interesting points, Jere. Aside from salmon and
steelhead, what about
> rainbow trout? I understand rainbows have not been
planted in the Yakima
> for years, but the fish that are there are now are progeny
from hatchery
> fish, but are considered wild.
>
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jcrosby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
>
>
> >What has happened is the spawning of hatchery fish in the
rivers. This
is
> >fairly common. They spawn at an earlier time frame than
native fish, but
> >some hatchery fish do spawn later in Mar. and it is those
fish that
> comprise
> >the "wild" fish that we presently have in the river
systems. The waters
> are
> >warmer at this time and provide food in the system for
survival that the
> >bulk of the hatchery fish do not have when they spawn in
Jan.
Summer-run,
> >for some reason(summer hatchery fish) are more successful
at successfully
> >spawning in the river and they spawn at about the same
time as winter
> >hatchery fish. I'm close to the numbers on this, but
can't remember
> >exactly. It has been demonstrated that if you harvest
70% of the run
for
> 5
> >consecutive years, you effectively eliminate a native run
of fish. We
did
> >that in the late 70's and '80's. Commercial netting
combined with sport
> >fishing effectively eliminated the possibility of true,
native fish.
> >However, a hatchery fish that successfully spawns and
returns as a wild
> fish
> >is a full fledged wild fish as far as I am concerned. I
have caught many
> of
> >them in the Sky and the Snoqualmie and they are
incredibly fine fish and
> >great fighters. Remember, any wild fish would have to
adapt to the
> >conditions as they are today anyway. We once thought
that there was a
good
> >run of big, native fish in Nov. and Dec. and that these
were
> over-harvested.
> >Once the game dept. began their fin-clip of hatchery
fish, the natives
> >disappeared. It was discovered these were 3 salt
hatchery fish. The
river
> >where they thought the best opportunity to observe
problems in genetics
was
> >on the Elochomen(sp?)
> >It is a small river and at one time had a large
population of both
hatchery
> >and wild. There proved to be little problem.
> >The philosophical question is "Are there native fish in
our rivers that
are
> >progeny of steelhead that were here 500 yrs ago, or
longer?" Probably
not,
> >but it is academic to me. Do what we can to improve
habitat and spawning
> >conditions, let native fish go and implement good
regulations during
their
> >spawning time and promote sport fishing! Hatchery fish
were planted to
> >harvest. Use good judgement and don't feel bad about
keeping some. Jere
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Justin Teegarden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 5:21 PM
> >Subject: Re: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
> >
> >
> >> Hmm, Jere I'd have to find it again, but I am sure I
read a few
articles
> >in "Salmon, Trout, Steelhead" about the problems of
intermingling wild
and
> >Hatchery fish and how Wild fish are more of a thing of
the past since
most
> >all fish now are from A: Hatcheries, or B: Wild fish
intermingling and
> >spawing with Hatchery fish. If this is not a good source,
Ok. I thought
> >that was one of the main reasons they wanted to make the
Sandy river a
> >"wild" only run and stop the hatchery and the fishing
there altogether
> >(Crazy, Agreed). You do bring up a good point. If they
are both of the
> >same stream/river originally, Then Genetics will stay the
same if they do
> >intermingle. I will have to look that up again.
> >>
> >>
> >> Justin
> >>
> >> On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:50:23 -0800 jcrosby
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >Most all of the studies done in recent years, much to
the chagrin of
> >those
> >> >wanting to turn back the clock 1000 yrs or so,
conclude that there is
> >very
> >> >little cross spawning and danger to the integrity of
the wild fish
> >> >(steelhead). The last major study done for the
Columbia River and
it's
> >> >tributaries and somewhat north, concluded that it
would take a very
> small
> >> >river and a considerable population of hatchery/native
fish to cause
any
> >> >measurable danger to the genetic integrity of wild
steelhead.
> >> >It is commendable on the fly fisherman's part to take
the lead in
> >> >re-establishing wild runs of salmon and steelhead.
Hatchery fish,
> >however,
> >> >make up a significant part of our fisheries. Sit down
and list all
the
> >> >hatchery fish that provide sport for yourself. They
make up the bulk
of
> >the
> >> >fish that I pursue. There are those that use the
endangered species
act
> >to
> >> >shutdown sportfishing. There are also those that
enlist the support
of
> >> >flyfishermen to give themselves credibility to
eliminate, or reduce
> >> >sportfishing and they are succeeding! I am finding
more and more
"lure"
> >> >fisherman who are willing to release wild fish and
even release
hatchery
> >> >fish that they do not want to eat, but they are
interested in using
> >common
> >> >sense. Where there are no fish runs, or very weak
runs, it makes
sense
> >to
> >> >plant fish. The largest steelhead runs in the world,
at this present
> >time,
> >> >are those that go up the Snake and the Clearwater
River, a result of a
> >> >hatchery program. They go over every dam on the
Columbia!
> >> >I, personally, release virtually all salmon and
steelhead. I just do
> not
> >> >like to eat them. I have kept sockeye from the Lake
WA. fishery. The
> >other
> >> >conclusion that I have come to is that water temp
makes a great deal
of
> >> >difference in the fight of steelhead. The water
temp., when hatchery
> >fish
> >> >return,(Dec.,Jan. Feb.) is colder than in Mar./Apr.
when native fish
> >return
> >> >and the fish fight much more in warmer water.
Hatchery summer runs
can
> >be
> >> >awesome fighters and it is due to the water temp.
Jere
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: Justin Teegarden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 2:04 PM
> >> >Subject: Re:Native vs Hatchery Fish
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> You can't ask for viewpoints on this subject without
getting a
> >difference
> >> >of opinion. Wild fish I'll always let go if you can
keep them or not
> >> >(anadronamous). Hatchery fish, well that depends. To
much to put down
> >here
> >> >on this viewpoint. I will keep Hatchery steelhead,
Especially if they
> >are
> >> >trucking them back down to swim up 2 and 3 times. I
don't think there
> >are
> >> >much "wild" fish left. I think the Hatchery
and Wild Have
> >> >intermingled for quit some time and to have a 100%
pure wild fish is a
> >bit
> >> >on the fantasy side, but one thing is for sure, the
color and fight, 9
> >times
> >> >out of 10, is twice as good as a hatchery fish. I
also Keep Hatchery
> >fish,
> >> >because of my wife. IF I Bring home something she
feels I'm not
wasting
> >my
> >> >time. Go Figure. It is also nice to eat fresh fish
every now and
> again.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think I could go on and on here, but I'll stop and
let others
spill
> >> >their viewpoints all over the board.
> >> >>
> >> >> Justin
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:28:33 -0800 Sean Ransom
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >wrote:
> >> >> >Since I have started fly fishing I have not kept
one fish I have
> >caught.
> >> >> >My main reason for this has been to do my part to
preserve the
> >dwindling
> >> >> >supply of fish. I would never keep a wild fish of
any species under
> >any
> >> >> >circumstances (even though I would like to
sometimes).
> >> >> >
> >> >> >However I have recently read a few different
viewpoints on hatchery
> >> >> >fish. I am mainly talking about steelhead but
salmon as well. I
have
> >> >> >heard that these fish are for the most part unable
to spawn and
> >> >> >fisherman are doing a service by removing them from
the streams so
> >they
> >> >> >do not intermingle with the natives. I have also
heard the
viewpoint
> >> >> >that all fish should be released whether they are
native or not.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I have no problem with folks who do keep fish and
would like to
> >justify
> >> >> >keeping fish myself. I am interested in hearing
some of the people
on
> >> >> >this boards viewpoints (without starting big debate
or anything).
> When
> >> >> >it comes down to it it is a personal decision but
am interested in
> >your
> >> >> >viewpoints. Also if anyone could recommend some
reading material on
> >the
> >> >> >subject I would appreciate it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >-sean
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Have you gotten your free email at fishing.com or
flyfishing.com? I
> >got
> >> >mine, come get yours! Visit www.fishing.com or
www.flyfishing.com to
> >sign
> >> >up!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Have you gotten your free email at fishing.com or
flyfishing.com? I
got
> >mine, come get yours! Visit www.fishing.com or
www.flyfishing.com to
sign
> >up!
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
