Wow - it is now well over a week of memory testing later - the downside of really loading up the RAM is that it takes a hell of a long time to run extensive testing!! It also generates a LOT of heat - I ended up with a fan blasting air at the back of the iMac - just to be safe ;o)
In the end I used both Rember AND AHT to check various RAM configurations and I THINK I have isolated the problem module - luckily one of the 4GB ones. In the end, for consistence, I used extensive testing in AHT and in Rember I used 3 loops. I won't go into all the gory details but, in summary: With 2x 8GB modules installed: Rember; all RAM; 3 loop - passed AHT; extended - Np problems found With 2x4GB modules installed: Rember; all RAM; 3 loop - FAIL on 1st pass at "solid bits" - at which point I did not bother with AHT to confirm a problem. With 1x 4GB (A) module installed: Rember; all RAM; 3 loop - passed AHT; extended - Np problems found With 1x 4GB (B) module installed: Rember; all RAM; 3 loop - passed AHT; extended - Failed to complete - computer locked - cursor not responding to mouse AHT; extended - 2nd attempt - Failed to complete - computer locked - cursor not responding to mouse With 2x8GB + 1x4GB (A) modules installed: Rember; all RAM; 3 loop - passed AHT; extended - Np problems found Since my original testing with AHT and all 4 modules installed had indicated a RAM problem (with more than one test), my conclusion is that there is some problem with the 1x 4GB (B) module – even though it passed the Rember test this would not test the whole RAM. At this point I could have done more extensive testing of this module – start up in single user mode – run memtest from terminal – but, to be honest, I have had enough of that for the moment and will proceed with just the 20GB RAM installed which is passing all Rember and AHT tests. Unfortunately, I am not at all sure that the RAM is actually the cause of my original crashes. During every RAM configuration the iMac would boot up OK but on my first boot-up with the 2x8GB modules installed, I logged in to my main account and still had a freeze-up/crash. I then logged in to a bare admin account – at which point the Rember test passed. All subsequent Rember testing was done when logged in to the admin account. Obviously running AHT does not actually boot OSX so user accounts are not relevant. Currently I am logged into my main account and all is working OK – so far. I am happy that there was SOME problem with the original RAM configuration which did not show up when booting but was revealed with dedicated memory testing – but I am not sure that that is the cause of my original problem. If the original problem resurfaces my next step will be to try the OSX combo update. If the problem STILL persists it would possibly indicate that the problem is in my user folder – possibly some corrupted file or preference file? In the event of further problems I will report back. One strange thing I found was that the exception to allow Rember to open did not “stick”: Trying to just open Rember gives the message “Rember can’t be opened because it is from an unidentified developer.” – which was originally to be expected. Clicking on the “Open Anyway” button on the security preferences pane just opens up the same message. Finding the app in finder and using a “right-click” open option gives the warning ““Rember” is from an unidentified developer. Are you sure you want to open it?” but also says “Opening “Rember” will always allow it to run on this Mac.” However, despite opening Rember, it subsequently still does not allow normal opening. I would hope not to have to run Rember on a frequent basis! So this is more of a niggle than a problem – unless it may be relevant to my original problem??! That’s all for now folks! Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Neil Houghton <[email protected]> Reply-To: WAMUG <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, 14 March 2019 at 14:33 To: WAMUG <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Strange iMac freezes Hi Daniel, Thanks for the info & suggestions. I don't think it is a heating problem. I used fan control software for quite a while when the original HD failed and I was running from my backup clone on an external drive. However when I replaced the HD and installed the SSD I used the OWC provided temperature sensor/lead and now the inbuilt system temperature control seems to work well. The HD fan seems to run a little faster than the original setup (maybe the 3TB Toshiba generates a bit more heat than the original 1TB drive) but iStat menus shows all temperatures as normal and fans ramping up as required. Previously, on hot days, the internal temperatures did rise enough to get the fans speeding up a bit (as expected) but never gave any problems. The problems have just been apparent this week when temperatures have not been high and fan speeds have been normal. The hard drives were my first thought - which is why I booted from an external drive and ran the full disk utility repair process on all internal drives an volumes - which showed no problems. Since AHT IS showing a RAM problem I think I need to address the RAM first. If I get rid of the currently indicated RAM problem and find that I still have ongoing problems then I may need to look at installing the combo update or look at more extensive HD testing - but I prefer to address one thing at a time to give me a better feel for the problem. I tried downloading remember but OSX won't let me open it because it is from an unidentified developer. I tried clicking the "open anyway" button but it still won't open - gives the same message. I guess I could change my security settings to allow apps downloaded from anywhere - but I'm reluctant to do that. I did read the Remember documentation though and note that it says: -------------------------------------------------------------- Try the Apple Hardware Test CD or DVD first! Macintosh computers currently ship with a version of the Apple Hardware Test (AHT), which can perform some fairly heavy duty memory tests on a computer. This should be one of the first lines of defense in diagnosing computer problems. Although the AHT test are thorough, they have not proven to find all defective memory. If these tests do not find the problem, then give Rember a try. AND: If have experience replacing hardware, the only way to locate defective memory chips is by deduction - guess and check or split-half method troubleshooting. This may be updated in the future. You may also attempt to run the Apple Hardware Test CD or DVD that comes with most Macs. This may give more information (if it finds the problem). -------------------------------------------------------------- So it would seem that Remember won't actually indicate which module is faulty - and since AHT is already indicating a problem the maybe I just need to try the suggested deduction ;o) The computer has been running OK since yesterday - but doing next to nothing as I work on the laptop - so I will run AHT again to be sure it still sees the problem - and then probably try the split-half method trouble shooting. I will keep you informed on progress. Cheers Neil ---------------------------------------------------------------- On 13/03/19, 21:28, "Daniel Kerr" <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> wrote: Hi Neil Just a quick reply as finishing off some other work. A few things I would run to test it. (sometimes I find Apple RAM test not all that helpful, whereas the following is very good). Just be aware it can take a really really long time to test it all, as it does a huge amount of tests to all the modules. (I’ve seen some take hours to complete - Rember - http://www.kelleycomputing.net/rember/ I’d also run the hard drives just to rule them out. For a good program I use Smart Disk Utility from here - (the demo is fine for a one off test). https://www.volitans-software.com/apps/smart-utility/ Could also be something “heating up” perhaps? So it runs for a while, until a part is heated up a bit more. (unlikely, but worth a check anyway). For older iMac’s that have had hard drives replaced this is a good program to help control the Fans a bit more then the Apple one - http://www.hddfancontrol.com But I’d be checking the RAM first would be my start. Hope something there helps. If I think of more, I’ll post back as well. Kind regards Daniel --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: <daniel AT macwizardry.com.au> Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> **For everything Apple** NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion and as such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of MacWizardry. Any information provided does not offer or warrant any form of warranty or accept liability. It would be appreciated that if any information in this email is to be disseminated, distributed or copied, that permission by the author be requested. > On 13 Mar 2019, at 8:52 pm, Neil Houghton <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Ronni, > > The problem is that all RAM modules show as OK both in System report and Etrecheck (which says the performance is Excellent) and it seems that the iMac thinks I have a fully functioning 24GB. > > It is obviously something that only shows up in the more heavy duty checks that AHT uses. > > The problem is that the error message does not seem to indicate which module is problematic - so I guess it is trial and error and repeated use of AHT? > > Thanks > > > Neil > > From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Ronni Brown <[email protected]> > Reply-To: <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, 13 March 2019 at 17:52 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Strange iMac freezes > > Hi Neil, > > Yes that AHT does indicate Bad Ram. On your menu bar go to: Apple > About This Mac > click on System Report... > then click on Memory in the Hardware section. > > > There you should be able to see which 0xb740bf98 module has failed and which slot it is installed in. > > Kind Regards, > Ronni > > Ronni Brown’s iPad Pro 12.9-inch 256GB > > > On 13 Mar 2019, at 5:18 pm, Neil Houghton <[email protected]> wrote: > >> OK - prior to running the combo update I thought I’d run a couple more tests: >> >> 1) I ran the Apple Hardware Test (AHT) in extended mode and it did report a problem (on pass 1): >> 4MEM/9/4000000 0xb740bf98 >> which I understand indicates a RAM problem. >> >> 2) I then ran Etrecheck which reported no problem except >> Last shutdown cause - 128- unknown >> However the time of this shutdown would match me hitting the shutdown button in Apple Hardware test - so not really a problem. >> >> So, my current thinking is: >> • AHT is finding a RAM problem >> • The RAM passes the normal bootup RAM check >> • Etrecheck shows all RAM modules check out OK >> • The problem could be a (few) bad sector(s) on one RAM module >> • Everything works fine until something tries to access the bad RAM sector(s) >> >> I guess I now need to isolate the bad RAM module. Given I have 24GB RAM in 4 modules then, assuming there is just one problem module, the iMac should continue to work fine on either 20GB or 16GB (depending on the size of the faulty RAM) while I get the bad RAM replaced. >> >> I may or may not need to run the combo update - depending on whether the various hard shutdowns have caused any corruptions problems. >> >> I will keep you informed on progress. >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Neil >> >> From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Neil Houghton <[email protected]> >> Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 17:20 >> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Strange iMac freezes >> >> OK - further update - another freeze: >> >> This time only MS Outlook was running and I was previewing attachments to an email (using the Outlook preview all button when the spinning beachball appeared. >> At first I could see both Outlook and Finder using the command-tab switcher and checking the fast user switching drop-down menu worked OK - showing my user account logged in. >> >> Then more strangeness happened: >> • All my desktop items “disappeared” though the desktop picture was still visible (if this had happened at the last freeze when using Firefox I would not have noticed since the desktop was obscured by the 2 Firefox windows) >> • Command-tab now only showed Outlook and NOT Finder - as if Finder had somehow quit and not relaunched. >> • I normally have the dock hidden but the cursor revealed it normally - showing no dot under the finder to show it was running. >> • I clicked the finder icon in the dock (hoping to relaunch finder) and the desktop picture immediately disappeared leaving a black background. >> >> Currently: >> • Desktop is black but menubar and Outlook window are still showing. >> • Mousing over the hidden dock no longer reveals it. >> • The cursor shows the spinning beachball over the outlook window and menu items >> • The Outlook window can be moved but not resized >> • The cursor currently show the normal pointer over the right-hand Apple menu icons and the 1Password menu icon >> • The cursor shows the spinning beachball over the Onedrive and Dropbox menu icons >> • When the cursor is moused over the Malwarebytes menu icon it says “Background service is offline” >> • When the cursor is moved over the black desktop, it does not change state - ie it stays as ether the normal pointer or as the beachball depending what the state was just prior to moving onto the “black” >> >> Continuing: >> • With the cursor over the Spotlight icon, it changed to the beachball and then the icon disappeared. >> • Picking on an Apple menu icon to click - this time the wireless status icon - resulted in the cursor now showing the spinning ball over all the Apple menu icons >> • Clicking on the 1Password and Malwarebytes menu icons also resulted in the cursor changing to showing the spinning ball over these menu icons >> • This time the other Apple menu icons did not actually disappear from the menu bar. >> >> The problem has now occurred both with Outlook only running and with Firefox only running and It now seems to me that the problem is not with either app but with some basic OSX functionality at the finder/dock level (or the processes running these functions). >> >> I think Ronni’s suggestion for the combo update is my best bet at this point. >> >> I will report back with my progress - or lack thereof ;o) >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Neil >> >> >> >> >> From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Neil Houghton <[email protected]> >> Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, 12 March 2019 at 16:02 >> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Strange iMac freezes >> >> Writing this from the laptop as my iMac has started playing up with strange ‘freezes’ the likes of which I’ve never seen before – and I’ve had my share of crashes, freezes & hangs over the years!! >> >> First my setup/hardware – which has been “enhanced” since purchase: >> • 27” iMac 2.8GHz i7 - late 2009 - running OSX 10.11.6 >> • 24GB RAM - 2x8GB + 2x4GB >> • Internal Drive 1 - Mercury Electra 250GB SSD - boot drive containing OSX, applications and a bare “admin” user account >> • Internal Drive 2 - 3TB Toshiba partitioned as: >> · 1.5TB volume - containing main user folder plus other data folders >> · 1.0TB volume - currently empty (earmarked for media files) >> · 500GB volume - containing my previous SL boot volume >> >> This has all been working fine since the rebuild to replace the HDs and boost the RAM. >> >> I have been out of town for a couple of weeks but shut down the compute and UPS and removed the plugs from the wall - so no chance of “power glitches” while we were away. >> >> On return everything fired up OK (from memory) but pretty soon I had a freeze - I don’t remember the exact sequence but, pretty soon I ended up with just a black screen with a cursor. The cursor continued to respond to the mouse but I could not “wake up” anything else. Command option escape would not open a force quit window and I had no means of knowing if any apps were still running. All I could do was power down using the power button on the back of the iMac. >> >> All booted up OK but fairly soon I ran into problems - again I don’t remember the exact sequence but I do remember the desktop going black whilst some open window remained visible but soon I was back at the black screen & cursor. Again, all I could do was power down using the power button on the back of the iMac. At this point, I was worried that I might have some drive problem so I rebooted from my backup clone and used disk utility to run first aid on all drives/partitions. I ran top level on both internal drives and then volume level on all four volumes - in all cases the repair went fine with no issues noted. >> >> Back to booting normally and again all seemed fine - for awhile - until another freeze - I just remember I was using Outlook this time. >> >> Sometime (I don’t remember when) during all this I remember Acrobat reader opening - unprompted - a couple of times. The first time barely registered - I just quit it - the second time made me think “why did it do that?” I was also trying to research OSX black screen problems - I found plenty of references to this problem but generally associated with incomplete system updates and none with similar circumstances to mine. One common thread on a numbers of these threads seemed to be down to some login problem which made me go the user preference pane where I noticed two new Adobe items in the login items list - which, I guess could explain the unexpected opening of Adobe reader. I have now removed the Adobe items from the login items list but my freeze problems persist and so this was probably non-related. >> >> >> The latest freeze is now ongoing – around 1 hour and I know that only a switch-off at the power button will get me out of it. >> • In this case the only app open was Firefox with two multi-tab windows on screen and one multi-tab window minimised in the dock. It froze with the spinning beach ball cursor – which still tracks the mouse movements. >> • Command-tab would not cycle me back to Finder. >> • Option-Command-Escape would not bring up the force-quit menu. >> • Mousing the cursor over the menu bar showed the spinning ball over all the Firefox menu items but the normal pointer over the right-hand Apple & 3rd party menu items. >> • I have the “fast user switching” menu item on so I clicked my user name to open the drop-down switching menu (I wanted to check if this looked “normal”) however, at that point most of the Apple menu items disappeared from the menu-bar. The Spotlight icon was still showing but clicking that turned the pointer to the beachball and, after a moment, the Spotlight icon also disappeared. >> • At present, both Firefox windows are still showing and I can switch between windows by clicking each window – but not between tabs within the window. >> • The menu bar still shows the left-hand Apple icon but the beachball cursor when over it. The full Firefox menu also shows – but again with the beachball. >> • The Dropbox, 1Password, Malwarebytes and Onedrive menu icons are still showing – but now with the beachball (although originally the shoed the normal pointer cursor). >> • Screen sleep initiated normally and the screen awoke from sleep normally with a keyboard input. >> UPDATE: I have just shut down using the power button and rebooted and quit the only reopened app (Firefox) and, for the moment, all looks fine. For the moment, I will leave it running while I have lunch and see if runs into any problems just sitting quietly doing nothing (from a user perspective!) >> >> UPDATE: Well, it has been running fine for a couple of hours now (but doing nothing) including screen sleep and rewake and system sleep and rewake/login - so I guess I will go back to using it and see if I can find any sort off pattern to the problem. >> >> Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions gratefully received. >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Neil >> >> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> >> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> >> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - Guidelines - Settings & Unsubscribe - > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
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