Also, protoc must be version 2.4.1. On May 31, 2013, at 9:17 AM, Paulo Pires <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all, > > Right now, I have this https://github.com/pires/wave > > I'll be merging latest changes during the day, but this is enough for you to > fiddle with. > > Cheers, > PP > > On May 30, 2013, at 5:51 PM, John Blossom <[email protected]> wrote: > >> PP, >> >> Great comments, I agree that brilliance without maintainability can be >> risky. We need both. >> >> Here's hoping that we can set the right BHAGs with the right metrics and >> messaging that will excite the world as much as we're excited. One step at >> a time, but I think that we're getting there. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> John >> On May 30, 2013 11:59 AM, "Paulo Pires" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> See inline. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> PP >>> >>> On May 30, 2013, at 4:26 PM, Michael MacFadden < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> In my humble opinion we need: >>>> >>>> 1) A vision and marketing to attract people. It's hard to attract >>> coders >>>> if they don't know what they are coding. >>> >>> Forget node.js or any other "world-changer-wannabe" frameworks. As Michael >>> states, most developers don't understand (or are even scared of) this >>> project architecture/structure. Fixing this would be a great start! >>> >>>> 2) We need a road map. >>> >>> I'd start with reorganizing code and simplifying the learning-curve for >>> developers. Without developers, there's no product! >>> >>>> 3) We need a design. >>> >>> Important in the long-term. >>> >>>> 4) Then we need coders. >>> >>> Yes, yes, yes! >>> >>>> >>>> Mainly we need coders to help with the release. Potentially finish off >>>> the migration to Maven. Then we need to start splitting the client and >>>> server (along with designing the protocols as we have discussed). >>> >>> Maven integration kept going (privately) and I have most, if not all of >>> the code updated to the last commit. >>> >>> Thing is that Michael prepared a discussion because of simple but very >>> important things like renaming packages and module structure and there was >>> little to no feedback from the community. This was more than enough for (at >>> least) me to think there was no common interest in what me and Michael were >>> doing and therefore I stopped. >>> >>>> Perhaps >>>> then we redesign the UI, or maybe simply making it more flashy. Maybe we >>>> focus on a mobile client. Not sure. >>>> >>>> ~Michael >>>> >>>> On 5/30/13 4:15 AM, "John Blossom" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Interesting remarks so far from everyone, thanks very much, keep them >>>>> coming. I see others coming in. >>>>> >>>>> Here are some thoughts regarding your thoughts: >>>>> >>>>> - There seems to be a commitment to get a release out. If that's a >>>>> near-term objective, then good, let's allow people to have pride in >>> their >>>>> work and to have a complete Wave 1.0 kit. If it's a "someday" goal, then >>>>> I'd suggest that we need to think about how best we can get resources to >>>>> move more towards the vision that I have outlined in my presentation >>> deck, >>>>> assuming that there's consensus that it be refined into a concrete >>> roadmap >>>>> and powerful pitch deck. My personal concern at this point is not "ship >>>>> it." My personal concern is to make Wave awesome and powerful as soon as >>>>> possible using every resource available, using those currently committed >>>>> and those yet to be committed. >>>>> >>>>> - Resources are an issue. So is funding, as a corollary. Both respond to >>>>> the right vision for the marketplace. I feel pretty confident that with >>>>> some refinement, what is captured in the presentation is funding-worthy >>>>> and >>>>> will attract funding. However, I am concerned about branding issues and >>>>> program management - people putting their money down will want effective >>>>> results in a meaningful timeframe, because competitive pressures don't >>>>> sleep. >>>>> >>>>> - I am willing to put my reputation and efforts into being a committer >>> for >>>>> Apache Wave, if a) there is a strong consensus that the presentation is >>>>> the >>>>> basis for forming an effective short-term and long-term roadmap for >>> Wave, >>>>> b) my role as an initial fund-raiser, marketer, product manager and >>> brand >>>>> developer as a committer is acceptable, c) if we can get agreement on >>> the >>>>> right branding and brand management that will be appropriate for Wave >>>>> being >>>>> successful commercially, and d) there is agreement that this will >>> require >>>>> not just some initial code funding but a framework that will ensure some >>>>> level of ongoing support for committers. >>>>> >>>>> - I am not a coder of any substance anymore, but I designed, coded and >>>>> managed coders on Unix-based systems for realtime applications in the >>>>> financial industry and have developed and hacked in many Web sites as >>> well >>>>> as little projects like monkeying around with Arduino. I have spent most >>>>> of >>>>> my career in strategic marketing and product management for content and >>>>> technology products such as Wave. I have spoken globally on visionary >>>>> content and technology topics, I have a very good base of social media >>>>> followers, I have been quoted in the mainstream press often and I have >>>>> appeared on television news shows. Often technology people put me in the >>>>> non-tech box and often non-tech people put me in the tech box. I don't >>>>> care. I have always worked at the intersection of content, technology >>> and >>>>> people, so as long as the right thing gets done, you can call me >>> whatever >>>>> you want. That's what you'd get, no more, no less. >>>>> >>>>> - I want Wave to succeed. You want Wave to succeed. Others want Wave to >>>>> succeed, and a growing number are taking interest in what has been >>> started >>>>> in this process by me and others. That's what branding, funding, >>>>> committers >>>>> and cooperation are all about - success. Sometimes that means that >>>>> everyone, including me, puts their own investment aside and tries to do >>>>> the >>>>> right thing. That's a part of the ASF spirit, I know. But I don't want >>>>> success by accident. I want success by design. >>>>> >>>>> So yes, we need committers. For what? >>>>> >>>>> Solve for x. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> John Blossom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 30, 2013 5:55 AM, "Christian Grobmeier" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Bruno Gonzalez <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I agree, IMO efforts should be directed at getting more man power. >>>>>> Sadly, >>>>>>> ideas are mostly useless if there's no hands that will transform them >>>>>> into >>>>>>> actual code. I don't know... a solid business plan for a kickstarter, >>>>>> some >>>>>>> advertising magic that will attract developers to devote their time >>>>>> for >>>>>>> free, convince the public to donate copious amounts of money to the >>>>>> project >>>>>>> (this was attempted by the now-offline fundwiab >>>>>>> <http://www.fundwiab.com/> initiative, >>>>>>> but it only managed to collect maybe 20 hours worth of developer time; >>>>>> too >>>>>>> little to do any medium sized task), etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> As Upayavira mentioned, getting a release out is crucial - its an >>>>>> important psychological hurdle. Having a release is also motivating >>>>>> for others to maybe contribute. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, one needs to deal with the man power a project has. There >>>>>> is now a John around with lot of ideas. While some might argue you >>>>>> need more coders, why are you not building up some marketing-fu >>>>>> together with John? He seems to be a good writer and very passionate. >>>>>> Maybe you folks should set up a blog (blogs.apache.org?), utilize G+ >>>>>> and Twitter. >>>>>> >>>>>> As reminder: in ASF world, not only people who write code can become a >>>>>> project committer. Everybody who is "committed to the project" and >>>>>> does things, is able to become a committer. This includes marketing >>>>>> work, blog posting, helping with translations, answering user >>>>>> questions on mailing lists etc.. In Apache OpenOffice, a few people do >>>>>> not know what a shell is and have heard of Java just from the press. >>>>>> But they do an incredible job with helping users, writing docs, >>>>>> testing and contributing to ideas. Hence, they become committers too. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I want to say: yes, you need more coders. But don't miss a chance >>>>>> to get people involved who are not coding. They might become very >>>>>> valuable community members + committers with the tons of other tasks >>>>>> necessary with Wave. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Christian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Angus Turner <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nothing about it not being appropriate, everything about having the >>>>>> man >>>>>>>> power. Right now it's hard enough to maintain the code we've got. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I personally would rather wave was written in a 'nice' language like >>>>>> JS >>>>>> or >>>>>>>> Python, but right now it's not worth the effort. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Angus Turner >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:53 PM, John Blossom <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Looking through some documentation on Wave-derived products, I am >>>>>> seeing >>>>>>>>> that there is some good use of Node.JS coding for server-side >>>>>> functions. >>>>>>>>> Why would it not be appropriate to replace some or all of the >>>>>> demo-model >>>>>>>>> code from Google on the server side with a light and powerful >>>>>> language >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>> as this? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Good analysis of Node performance at: >>>>>> http://nodejs.org/jsconf2010.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Saludos, >>>>>>> Bruno González >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Jabber: stenyak AT gmail.com >>>>>>> http://www.stenyak.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> http://www.grobmeier.de >>>>>> https://www.timeandbill.de >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >
