Greetings, I only recently discovered web2py and I am really impressed with the product. However, this thread piqued my interest because it echoes a lot of what I have been thinking over the past few days as I set about to learn web2py.
I know a lot of this has been covered here and other threads but I wanted to post my thoughts while they still rank as a first impression. Problems I have encountered so far: 1. There is a lot of outdated information about web2py that I came across in my initial searches for tutorial/examples. I was particularly confused by the roles of T2 and T3 in the overall project. Good documentation is key to attracting users. Screencasts seem to be all the rage these days (for good reason I think). More of these please. 2. The project resources seem scattered all over the place... documentation, screen casts, source code, tutorials need better centralized organization. People coming from other frameworks are almost guaranteed to expect this. Django does an excellent job of this. As others have mentioned, the project really needs a home of its own. 3. Evangelism -- I had to WORK to even find this framework. I can't believe I had not seen it before. It is clearly far ahead of other projects in many areas and has a lot of obvious appeal once you start using it, but how would I have known? Prestigious proof of concept sites would go a long way. Rails has Basecamp, Django has washingtonpost.com. What is the web2py equivalent? 4. I don't understand the stance of "not trying to compete with Rails and Django". These frameworks are definitely doing some things right and have much in common with web2py. I think web2py does a lot of these things better but like it or not, it does compete with them for developer attention. The enterprise is not off-limits to these frameworks either (nor is Catalyst for that matter). 4. The name is terrible (I know this has been covered and likely won't change but I have to say it anyway). The name web2py has no gravitas. Gluon was a MUCH better name, IMO. I understand the reasons it had to change but web2py, as someone has already mentioned, sounds like a command line conversion utility like html2pdf. This project is worthy of a better name. The best way I can describe the problem is that the impression I got from actually installing web2py and using it for a couple of days was a total surprise. There was nothing about the way the project is portrayed that prepared me for how awesome it is. Rails is kind of the opposite. The hype is everywhere but the experience is something of a let-down, yet its popularity is undeniable. Not to be entirely critical, I really like what has been developed so far and I plan on using web2py for my next web project at work as I am in a position to choose my own tools. I bought the pdf book from Lulu and I am ready to dig in. Thank you for web2py. I am very excited about using it. On Mar 16, 9:54 am, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree with this. The new "who" and "support" pages are an attempt to > do exactly that. > > Although as I have suggested in the past it, we should not just > imitate other open source projects. We should think bigger. Remember > the discussion on the "open source corporation"? There is more than > unites us here than just web2py and we need to capitalize on that. > Web2py should be a tool in our toolbox together with postgresql, linux > etc. Moreover if we "officialize" the concept a team and toolbox it > should be open (anybody can apply) but also selective (not everybody > gets in). > > As I mentioned in the past I have no interest in competing with Django > or Rails. I want to compete for consulting jobs with IBM. I think we > have the people, we don't have the structure in place. > > Massimo > > On Mar 16, 8:23 am, Francisco Gama <[email protected]> wrote: > > > One "detail" aboutmarketing. > > > I know for a fact that projects that appear as "created by Mr. X" > > don't trigger enterprises the same way as "created by Team X". There > > are so many cases of projects (mainly) created by a single person that > > are sold as being created by a team. This is very common and hits the > > extreme with one-guy companies that show call centers and support > > teams in the website that just don't exist. > > Companies are very conservative thinking about software. "A single guy > > could never do something better than a team", "something free can > > never be better than something paid", ... > > You don't have to be amarketingfellow to know it sounds better > > "Contact us" instead of "Contact me". > > > Until now, I've just been talking aboutmarketingbut when I think > > about it... now getting techincal > > > web2py amount of users and contributors already gives you enough > > critical mass to create a team. A team as in "job delegation" by > > Massimo. > > E.g.: There could be a guy to maintain documentation. There could be > > other for appliance validation and submittion, other for Artwork and > > layouts.... > > > better job done and a better life to Massimo? > > > On Mar 16, 12:59 pm, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I am definitively open to changing the tag line but some comments: > > > > web2py users have been growing, slowly but steadily and exponentially. > > > I think mainly because of word of mouth. The best way to grow web2py > > > is for you to blog about it, twit about it, etc. Tell other people > > > what you think. > > > > It is bad that I am the only voice of web2py. > > > > The biggest thing holding back web2py is the negative publicity coming > > > from competing frameworks who perceived web2py as a threat. There are > > > a couple of people who hate web2py and are responsible for many of the > > > negative comments under different names. Nobody really ever made a > > > substantiated attack on web2py, they usually just say something vague > > > and then get personal against me. This is usually because they worked > > > hard on something like a popular ORM or a template system or a syntax > > > highlighter and we are not using their work. > > > > Massimo > > > > On Mar 16, 7:15 am, Miguel <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Maybe this one tagline: "Enterprise strong, made simple" > > > > > List of suggested taglines (don't think I missed any): > > > > "Enterprise strong, made simple" > > > > "Easy to use, industrial strength" > > > > "Easy framework; enterprise ready" > > > > > Miguel > > > > > Markus Gritsch wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 3:28 AM, weheh <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> The fact that web2py scales to enterprise-wide apps is a huge selling > > > > >> point to the professional community. It immediately caught my > > > > >> attention because I wanted to be sure the system was able to be used > > > > >> in industrial-strength applications. > > > > > > So maybe this tagline: "Easy to use, industrial strength" > > > > > > Markus --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
