LOL.
On Jul 18, 5:42 pm, Hans Donner <[email protected]> wrote:
> my wish is that Yarko would be able to express himself in one mail
> instead of several (in a short timeframe) :-)
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 00:38, Yarko Tymciurak<[email protected]> wrote:
> > I would add one more thing to my list (below):
>
> > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> If you've never looked at this video, please do - it's about 1/2 hour but
> >> worth the time (I just took it in pieces over the afternoon).
>
> >> From my notes:
>
> >> In this test, web2py would have came out on top (and understandably so).
>
> >> Opportunities for web2py (based on observing this video):
>
> >> docs
>
> >> (nothing you didn't already know, but note: django in this version rated
> >> fair on docs because there were no books yet, so this is a
> >> stage-of-development thing; AND there actually already is good
> >> documentation
> >> - the book; only it's not free, and you may not be thrilled about that -
> >> but
> >> it is good, works, and is there; and there's more in the works)
>
> >> Legacy Database Interface
>
> >> we get a lot of request for this, and this video just validates that those
> >> are reasonable and valid requests.
> >> automatic database reflection is possible (to an extent; proved by and
> >> within the limits SQLAlchemy already does, and probably others;)
> >> mapping existing db names to DAL naming conventions needed .... this may
> >> come up in new DAL; if not, we can probably do this (first) in a contrib
> >> package; the most obvious use is mappind to ID, but any relevant db name
> >> needs to map to (e.g. names starting with "_"). This is all do-able, given
> >> time.
> >> I would also like a manual version of migrations... for me the most
> >> appealing aspect of making the "automatic" atomic such that it can be
> >> manually controlled is the potential for inspecting prior to migration, and
> >> with that manual, human discernment, have the potential for rollback. This
> >> seems appealing in the real world.
>
> >> Full text search
>
> >> I have no idea what the state of this is, but know that having it, and
> >> having it easy for an application to add / use will be great;
>
> >> Skinning
>
> >> This means not changing the template language elements of a particular
> >> site in order to get a different look
> >> We can get to this, with some conventions. Seems 2 rough places: CSS
> >> standard names for basic layout elements will facilitate; jPolite kind of
> >> layout, with look-and-feel for content frames seems to me the second part.
> >> I have no idea what this means for Flash/Flex UI's, but suspect this is an
> >> entirely separate ballgame.
>
> >> Everything else, I'm pleased to say, web2py already excels in quite well,
> >> thank you - and even more....
>
> >> Not from this video, but my own observations:
>
> >> C-DAL
>
> >> We have some interplay with Google's big tables from DAL, but the "fit" is
> >> partial, less than ideal (though still workable).
> >> My personal opinion has been (and is growing in conviction) that a Column
> >> oriented DAL, that is abstracting things specific to Big Tables, Cassandra
> >> (Facebook), and other prime users (I don't think couchDB falls into this
> >> bucket; I'm not sure what Amazon S3 is exactly - is it a column oriented
> >> thing too? - it's not advertised) I see that Apache Hadoop can be hosted
> >> on
> >> S3, so my suggestion for an initial abstraction experiment is Big Tables,
> >> Cassandra, and Hadoop.
> >> Over time (and with experience) it will be interesting to see what overlap
> >> / abstraction synergy between C-DAL and R-DAL (relational - the current
> >> DAL;
> >> I just want a way to distinquish them). It would be nice to have a common
> >> DAL with abstractions that fit well in both (sort of what we have now, only
> >> less skewed towards relational, and perhaps better cenetered), and ability
> >> to move to either R-DAL or C-DAL to get more performance / feature control
> >> into either domain.
>
> >> Lots of fun ahead, even without "many changes" - there are enough to keep
> >> things nicely interesting.
>
> >> And notice: none of what is layed out here breaks or affects backward
> >> compatibility - it's all forward motion, enhance / extend.
>
> >> - Yarko
>
> >> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Yarko Tymciurak <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Ach! Yes that's it - JPL - It was from Sean Kelly who's video starts
> >>> with him working at NOAA:
>
> >>>http://oodt.jpl.nasa.gov/better-web-app.mov
>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 7:42 AM, weheh <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> -----
> >>>> all the rest of this is smack-dab peachy: I'll remind you of one
> >>>> thing -
> >>>> there was a website, guy from NOAA I think it was - that showed all
> >>>> the
> >>>> frameworks that claimed to have something; he tried building
> >>>> something
> >>>> simple with them and uncovered all the flaws and gotchas and try to
> >>>> say
> >>>> "here's what I would (wouldn't) want to build with".... most things
> >>>> just
> >>>> took a long time...
> >>>> -----
>
> >>>> Actually, it was a guy from JPL as I recall. In fact, watching his
> >>>> screencast is exactly what got me started looking at frameworks and
> >>>> CMSs. One thing led to the next and I found Django. And then I watched
> >>>> a video of one of Django's developers and he said something like this:
> >>>> "... Django's templataing language is different from python because
> >>>> it's made for page designers. Page designers don't write programs and
> >>>> programmers don't design pages."
>
> >>>> That is exactly what lost me for Django. Then I found web2py and the
> >>>> rest is history.
>
> >>>> I agree wholeheartedly with MDP's observation of the 80:20 rule.
> >>>> However, I find that web2py is an exception. On my first web2py app I
> >>>> probably used 90-95% of the features of web2py. On the next app, it
> >>>> will be 100%. Interestingly, my plate will be clean AND my appetite
> >>>> sated. There is nothing extraneous in web2py that I can discern.
>
> >>>> Web2py's niche is that one person of reasonable skill can develop a
> >>>> sophisticated enterprise web application in minimal time with minimal
> >>>> effort. This is because of its 3Cs: consistency, completeness, and
> >>>> conciseness.
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