I would really love to see a web2py-developers google group form, and a web2py-management group. At least then there can be a forum to discuss the strategic plan, and general organization for the project, and not pollute the web2py-users group.
One must not forget that we are comparing frameworks that are at different points in their development. Django is established and mature, Web2py is young and still in early stages. While the web2py code is as solid and stable as (if not more than) Django, a project is more than just code, it is the community of volunteers and the consistent effort they are putting in. The best example of the framework that COULD, but didn't due to failure in creating an involved community was Perl's Gantry. The tech was great, it was also far simpler to get up and running than any other perl framework. It was really a "rails" for perl. HOWEVER, the community never materialized, and the project is now dead in the water. One of the biggest killers of open-source projects is the failure to build a strong participatory community. In fact, I learned web2py before any other framework, but not before researching a lot of other frameworks (including Django, and those in other languages other than Python). However, as it is, if the effort behind web2py is built around convincing coders from Django and making them see the light that web2py is better. I am not interested in participating in that crusade. I would prefer if the framework concentrates on just being another framework that is different in just the right ways. It is still a goal to be better than the rest, but you need to be a bit more specific than that to reach your goal. On Jul 17, 2:15 pm, Bottiger <[email protected]> wrote: > > Since no one else completed, web2py didn't get recognized at the conference > > You also forgot to mention that no one else *competed*. > > Now it may very well be true that Web2Py is quicker to develop. When I > look at the code, it does seem shorter and cleaner, but I can still > program the same thing faster in Django than I can in Web2Py because: > > 1. I learned it a while ago first. > 2. The free Django documentation is much better than the Web2Py one. > > Again, this goes back to my point that Web2Py will remain in 2nd place > until its benefits are larger than its learning curve. Fortunately for > me, I have not sunk too much time into Django and I have had the time > to see where it is better than Django. However the majority of people > are not so fortunate. > > Being easy to develop is good, but at the same time it can come with a > cost. It produces a bunch of unpolished apps that the public sees and > becomes immediately turned off. Here are a few examples that I found > on Reddit and Google: > > http://www2.un.int/- Broken pictures everywhere. Completely static > front page. Subpages appear completely > static.https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/personal/default/register- > Brokenhttp://yao.appspot.com/- Featureless bloghttp://mmlado.com/- Yet > another featureless bloghttp://morrisdecode.com/- Looks like the same theme > as Web2Py > default.http://www.professionalit.com.br/- Completely static page that could > have been done in HTML. > > This is not to say that being easy to develop is bad. But it does say > that Web2Py is not so easy compared to Django that we can rely on it > to set us apart. > > On Jul 17, 1:12 pm, Yarko Tymciurak <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Bottiger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Django also has the ability to use SQLite. > > > > Web2Py is a somewhat better at everything Django tries to do, but the > > > differences are simply not enough for the average programmer to see > > > through in 1 sitting. Let's take a look at the commonly cited features > > > of Web2Py. > > > > **Please note this is not a bashing of Web2Py.** > > > > - Web Editor > > > > This is pretty nice yes, but its no replacement for a regular text > > > editor. Often times when I am using it, there will be graphical > > > glitches where text gets smeared all over the place. Often times when > > > I am editing even a simple tutorial, the save stops working, and > > > doesn't even tell you that the session has timed out. For most people, > > > this is not that much of a difference. > > > You have these kinds of lockups?!? > > > I've always found I prefer using MY editor - if I _really_ want to do it > > thru the web (even for small stuff) I use firefox, and get the "It's all > > Text" plugin - specify "my favorite editor" (vim, for me). The only thing > > annoying is that "plain text" is not the default mode in web2py, so I always > > have to either twiddle this (which is what I do - because I usually develop > > from WingIDE, which I greatly prefer) or patch the defaul (don't know I've > > ever done that... I just stay out of any but the most minor of developing on > > the web). > > >https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125 > > > > - Compilation > > > > Django does this automatically, so I don't know why this is considered > > > a feature. > > > Really?!? > > > Are we talking byte code compilation / precompilation (prior to deployment), > > or are we talking about compilation of all-in-one executables for Mac of PC? > > > "Automatic" compilation (bytecode) is what Python does, actually.... but I > > don't think that's what we mean here... > > > > - Secure > > > > The average programmer does not have the ability to see any concrete > > > benefit this has over Django. From what I've seen learning Web2Py, it > > > doesn't do anything that Django doesn't do with filtering and escaping > > > text, html etc. > > > Does django now do this by default? (I think it didn't used to - it just > > provided a way for you to, as I recall...). > > Anyway, that's a good thing. > > > all the rest of this is smack-dab peachy: I'll remind you of one thing - > > there was a website, guy from NOAA I think it was - that showed all the > > frameworks that claimed to have something; he tried building something > > simple with them and uncovered all the flaws and gotchas and try to say > > "here's what I would (wouldn't) want to build with".... most things just > > took a long time... > > > web2py wasn't in that, but we discussed this about a year ago - web2py would > > have done really well in that. I have often pined that it would be good to > > re-do that video with current versions of "stuff", and include web2py... > > > For example: 1 year ago, there was a contest: "come bring your favorite > > framework and deliver an app" - no pre-anouncement of what you would build, > > 24 hr (? or was it 12 hrs) time limit, start to finish. > > > The ONLYONE that even finished: you guessed it: web2py; and that in LESS > > than the alloted time. (See a running result > > onhttp://web2py.appspot.com/survey). Since no one else completed, web2py > > didn't get recognized at the conference (I think they didn't want to > > alienate the other frameworks). > > > SO - this is what there is to remember about web2py. > > > There is more - at the PyCon DoJo, no one (not Bruce Eckel - who suggested > > and helped us outline and plan it - he thought we were too ambitious, that > > no one would get "all that done" in an hour; not people participating, > > including some knowledgable people - they were surprised... but it was a lot > > of "mind shift" to absorb in an hour regardless)... > > > SO when you spout features, spout accessibility of those features too.... > > > The reason (my opinion) Massimo is not wanting "help" w/ next DAL is he's > > trying to make it easier for people to use, based on all the questions he's > > answered (no one else has that accumulation of experience w/ the questions). > > > Is there work to do? Yes. > > > Is there anything to web2py ("that other's don't have") - You bet ... just > > be sure you're measuring the right things. > > (I really, now, am going to have to dig up that URL to the video > > comparison...) > > > - Yarko --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
