Hi Jeremy,
On Jul 10, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Jeremy Orlow wrote:
[snip]
Your argument makes sense if WebKit is only built for one platform/
build-system. Unfortunately it's not. So the question is whether
it's easier to maintain lots of different build files or whether
it's easier to maintain one file that's perhaps a bit more abstract
+ the tool that interprets it.
I agree that working directly in the project file for your platform
is easier IF you're only developing for one platform. But once you
start maintaining more than one project file, I think GYP is a big
win.
While we hope that others will update our GYPI file when they add/
remove files, our build depends on it...so we'll definitely be
keeping it in sync. So I think the question then becomes whether
it's easier for you to maintain your new build format, or whether
it's easier to make it a target for GYP. I honestly don't know what
the answer is, but I think it's worth taking a closer look at GYP.
Actually, the big question in regards to having GYP reduce overall
project maintenance is whether or not the other ports will adopt GYP.
If the answer is yes, then it would be more compelling for wx to do so
as well, assuming of course that someone implements a waf backend so
that we can. :-) If the answer is no, though, then GYP is not reducing
the amount of project maintenance work for any port other than
Chromium, in which case there will still be 6 build systems (still 5
even if wx were to switch) and the problem I originally posed in this
thread will still be an issue. In that case, the only way to really
reduce the maintenance work of adding / removing files would again be
to adopt a script like the one I suggested earlier.
Speaking of which, with waf / Python I've actually almost completely
automated the generation of the list of include dirs for my build
projects based on the source files, so that I'm not maintaining them
by hand anymore except for a few exceptions. And thinking about it, I
bet I can even mostly automate the list of source files too, by having
it grab all the .cpp files in the common dirs and special subdirs like
curl and wx, then having some include / exclude filters to deal with a
few special cases. :-) The question will be the performance hit, but
at least with the includes it's not even noticeable, and I could
always look into caching and changing only when you do an svn up or
svn add/remove.
That's the sort of flexibility and ability to quickly experiment and
automate that scripts offer, and I suspect I will really miss that if
I switch back to something like Bakefile / GYP.
Thanks,
Kevin
J
Thanks,
Kevin
The only format I'm not sure if we could automate > reliably would
be the XCode format (at least, on non-Mac
machines), because IIUC we'd need some sort of parser for it,
but Apple is the only port maintaining those directly IIUC,
as now Chromium will be using GYP to update their XCode
projects.
If you hand-edit Xcode project files enough times you start to
understand them, but you also may go insane in the process. I don't
know that you have to write a full parser for it, but there is some
non-trivial, minimal structure you have to understand to update the
file properly.
So even if we couldn't solve the XCode issue, that
would drop it to updating two locations tops.
I count 6 build systems in use currently (SCons support was added
and removed within the last year):
- Apple's Xcode
- Apple's vcproj (also used by at least one other Windows port)
- wx Bakefile (which will be replaced by waf soon)
- Qt Qmake
- GTK GNUMakefile
- Google's gyp (added recently)
Are any of the other ports going to switch to generating their build
files using gyp?
Dave
----- Original Message ----
From: Kevin Ollivier <[email protected]>
To: Dimitri Glazkov <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Mentovai <[email protected]>; WebKit Development <[email protected]
>
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:52:57 AM
Subject: [webkit-dev] Build File Maintenance (was Re: Please welcome
GYP to the our dysfunctional build family)
Hi Dimitri and all,
Congrats on getting this into WebKit! Actually, I'm in the middle of
a build
system switch as well - to waf, a re-write of scons that removed
many of the
performance issues related to searching and calculating
dependencies, and which
has added some nice features as well (such as .app bundle building).
I haven't
completed the switch so I can't do preliminary benchmarks, but I'm
pretty sure
it's actually as fast or faster than make on *nix/Mac. (And BTW, it
will
probably make Apple devs happy to hear that I'm no longer using the
horrid
build-wxwebkit bash script to manage the build, but instead have
integrated
everything into build-webkit finally!)
The main reason I bring this up, though, is because I think this
sort of thing
shows that we're unlikely to centralize our build systems any time
soon, and I
feel a bit sorry for the core devs who, as they accept new ports,
are probably
finding it more and more tedious, if not difficult, to make sure all
the
projects get updated by a change to the common parts of the build.
They've been
very helpful in terms of trying to keep the ports in shape when they
make
changes, and I feel like I'd like to do what I can to make it easier
and faster
to keep the other ports in sync.
At one point, I started on a script (located in
WebKitTools/Scripts/update-sources-list.py) whose idea was to take
the list of
common sources from one file, and make changes to MSVC, Qt, GTK,
etc. build
systems, so that WebKit devs need only add the file once, run the
script, and
commit the results. I got it as far as theoretically generating the
Qt and GTK
file lists, but I don't think anyone on those ports tried
integrating it into
their build system, and I sort of moved on to other things.
Unfortunately, right now I'm really swamped (my build system rewrite
was
prompted by WebKit exceeding internal, hardcoded, Bakefile limits,
not by
choice), but if a common location for the source files list could be
decided
upon, I really think a script would be a simple matter to write up
(even in Perl
:P ), and I think it would probably save developers time and reduce
build
breakages as well, which I think would add up to a lot of saved time
for a lot
of people over the long term. The only format I'm not sure if we
could automate
reliably would be the XCode format (at least, on non-Mac machines),
because IIUC
we'd need some sort of parser for it, but Apple is the only port
maintaining
those directly IIUC, as now Chromium will be using GYP to update
their XCode
projects. So even if we couldn't solve the XCode issue, that would
drop it to
updating two locations tops.
So, does anyone think this would be a bad idea, or have any alternate
suggestions on how to improve things? If not, is anyone willing to
take the ball
and run with it? I'd be willing to invest some more time in it, but
my ability
to commit to it over the next couple weeks at least would be very
limited.
Thanks,
Kevin
On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote:
Dear WebKiteurs,
In our persisting quest to be more like a common WebKit port, we have
added Chromium build files to the tree this afternoon. These files are
WebCore/WebCore.gypi and JavaScriptCore/JavaScriptCore.gypi and they
are the GYP include files. As you may know, we use GYP
(http://code.google.com/p/gyp) for generating MSVC, XCode, Scons, and
even Make projects for Chromium.
We are rather fond of GYP. Perhaps it is because it allows us to
maintain one set of project files for all three Chromium platforms;
or maybe because it lets us to do things like WebCore.gypi, where we
can just mindlessly add all project files to the list and then use
various neat GYP filtering facilities to narrow them down to sets that
are relevant for specific builds;
or maybe because it easifies creating cross-platform and
cross-build-system targets, actions, and rules;
or maybe because we just love saying "Gyp!"
I don't truthfully know.
What I do know is that starting now, we'd love for you to remember
WebCore.gypi and JavaScriptCore.gypi when you are adding or removing
files from WebCore or JavaScriptCore. Thanks to the power of GYP, you
don't have worry whether this file will be used by Chromium: the rule
is that if there's a project file change, it applies to the *.gypi
files. The format is very simple and intuitive, a simple Python/JSONey
list+dict.
Thank you for your attention, men and women of WebKit.
:DG<
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