Greg,
Not to belittle all the work people are going through to make this
work but it seems the R in this RAD product is now gone.
Most of us are finding that it is even _more_ rapid.
I have to say I'm in complete agreement with Chuck on this one. As
many on this list know, I was also hit pretty hard with the
deprecation of the tools to many reasons outside my control. Here is
my two cents on this matter. WOBuilder separated you so much from the
underlying HTML that it literally hurt. For me it was an excuse not
to learn the fine intricacies of HTML. It turns out that's actually a
bad thing. Letting a tool build HTML generally makes for bad HTML. I
used to rely heavily on visual design tools to keep from getting my
hands dirty with HTML.
While it may be great for Desktop Publishing application to
completely hide the formatting and structure code that make up a page
layout. It turns out be problematic for HTML visual editors to do that.
2. Has anyone migrated to a completely different application
server/development environment and what do they like better about it?
I doubt they'd be on this list if they did... But I have never
heard any such story. RoR is nice for certain classes of
applications.
Well there's at least one of us still around on the list. The only
time I touch WO now is to maintain our currently installed
applications. This was not, however, by choice. Some of us,
unfortunately, work for someone else, and don't have decision making
authority. We get stuck with whatever the company decides to throw at
us. In our case that's Oracle JDeveloper (J2EE with Oracle ADF). Oh,
how I miss WO....
Now that's at work...
For my personal projects, I have migrated to an entirely different
set of tools. And yes that tool is RoR. I have to say, I LOVE Ruby on
Rails. It is fantastically fun. It has put the joy back into
programming for me. Ruby is the most beautiful language I've ever had
the privilege of working with. The Rails framework is clean, simple
and rich. Would I choose RoR for any application? Probably not. But,
I do choose it where it makes sense.
WO has the guts to play with the big dogs, and EOF is as beautiful in
design as anything in Rails. The real gem, sorry for the intended
pun, of Rails is Ruby. And after working with J2EE for some time now.
I have to say that I took EOF so much for granted. It was the first
Object Relational Mapping tool I learned. I've seen nothing in J2EE
that can hold a candle to EOF.
So if I lived in a dream world, where I actually got to choose my own
tools, that's a pretty easy choice. For large scale, enterprise
applications, WebObjects wins hands down. For everything else RoR is
a wonderful choice, and that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you
write one simple, and elegant, line of code that takes an entire Java
class to replicate...well that's just a nice bonus.
Use the tool that fits the job. WebObjects can handle anything that
J2EE can, while being much more bearable. RoR for the lighter stuff
and just to have some fun. However, underestimate RoR at your peril.
There's some real world power under that hood.
I say give it a chance man. Embrace change! You just might come out
the other side with a simile on your face, and kick ass application
to give to your client.
On Nov 14, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
On Nov 14, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Greg Smith wrote:
I have been using WO since the pre OSX client days and have been
loving it. As a heavy WOBuilder and EOModeler user I am finding
WOLips quite a downgrade.
As a heavy WOLips user, I would find going back to WOBuilder and
EOModeler quite a downgrade. EOModeler especially. Which version
of WOLips and Eclipse are you using?
Not to belittle all the work people are going through to make this
work but it seems the R in this RAD product is now gone.
Most of us are finding that it is even _more_ rapid.
It seems this is what set WO apart from the rest, power and ease,
the Apple mantra.
Now for a couple questions for my fellow WO users:
1. Is there a migration process from 5.2 to WOLips or am I stuck
with rebuilding every product by cutting and pasting source?
http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOL/Migrating+from
+XCode+to+WOLips
2. Has anyone migrated to a completely different application
server/development environment and what do they like better about it?
I doubt they'd be on this list if they did... But I have never
heard any such story. RoR is nice for certain classes of
applications.
3. Has anyone tried something else and gone back to (or wish they
could) WOLips, and why?
Several have. Try J2EE for a few months. :-P
Chuck
--
Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific
problems.
http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
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