Hi Marco, On 27/02/2013 17:31, Marco Menardi wrote: > On 27/02/2013 14:24, Sophie Gautier wrote: >> Hi Marco, >> On 27/02/2013 13:59, Marco Menardi wrote: >>> On 26/02/2013 18:09, Camille Moulin wrote: >>>> Hi Marco, >>>> >>>> We all share your concern (at least to some extent). The topic has >>>> already been discussed: please, read the thread in the archives >>>> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg09996.html >>>> >>>> The remaining Apple screens are also about to be replaced. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Camille >>> >>> Thanks, unfortunately I've subscribed just yesterday in the ML after a >>> long period of frustration for this problem, so can't add my comment >>> there (AFAIK). >>> I ask: why wait for a image replacement and keep sending an hurting >>> message? Just removing the current iMac images and keep only the screen >>> content would be a good choice, THEN and WHEN you will find a "no >>> proprietary software promotion image" that you like, put that ones. >> >> May be you could help here, that will lower your frustration and you'll >> have contribute to make us better. > > in fact, I'm raising the problem and giving suggestions. I don't use > Gimp, never had time/chances to learn, I'm a sysadmin, developer on some > extend, and a Foss activist. > >> >>> I'm not joking, I've stopped all the LiBo promotion due to the >>> embarrassment and the credibility problems that pointing people to that >>> page is causing me ("haha, I've been in libo page, and they use Apple, >>> so what about all you told me about Freedom and Free software? You see, >>> is not a problem, your friends use and value proprietary software a >>> lot!"). >> >> May be you can send them to the IT site, it doesn't have the page yet, >> they'll see that we stick to our values and you could tell them that >> main site is still a work in progress, and fortunately with some help, >> everything will be solved shortly. > > Lol, do I have to say them "go to this url, not the official one because > it's an Apple/proprietary software ad?" > > >>> Take away the iMac images, keep only the screen content and the black >>> border (or better a different color border) and you will have a page as >>> nice looking as the current one, and focused on LiBo as Free program, >>> not on a "enslaver" firm/philosophy. >> >> It won't look very nice without the screen and less professional than >> currently. So please provide compliant graphics and everything will be >> fine. >> > > You must set the priority here. Is "less professional" better than > "misleading and sending the wrong message, suggesting we are on the > proprietary software side"? > What about putting a very "professional" M$Office box image also (of > course, with a "LibreOffice" label on it)? > http://www.officeoffre.it/images/Microsoft-Office-Home-Student-2007-it.png > >>> This will take only some minutes to our good designers and stop >>> immediately the concerns. >> >> yes, with your little help :) >> > > I'm no a graphic, is like if someone reports a bug and you say "learn to > program and help fix the code please". I know would be great, but is not > becoming reality any time soon ;P > >>> We are not "selling" a product, we are pushing and sharing a vision for >>> a better, free world, the precision and coherence of our messages and >>> our behavior is FUNDAMENTAL for our credibility. >> >> and we are volunteers trying to build this better world, each hand is >> needed and welcomed. >> > > being volunteer (like I am) does not mean "we never do a mistake" nor > "since it's gratis, take as is and don't complain, or do it yourself", > would be not fair. > >>> Thanks a lot for the attention, looking forward to resume my involvement >>> in LiBo as soon as the problem is fixed. >> >> The problem will be fixed much more quicker if you helped instead of >> waiting for things to be done by themselves. This is why we are here: to >> make things happen :) >> > > Premise: I'm on IRC and email since long long time, so I know that, not > having the "metacommunication" of smiles and friendly faces, is easy to > "fight" or be misunderstood, and this is not my intention. Also writing > in English is a problem for me because I've a limited vocabulary and > tend to use simple words like good/bad, right/wrong that could be taken > wrong (hehe, you see?) or be irritating even if was not my intention. > Nevertheless I want to frankly share my view. > > I'm "making things happen" in QA, bug hunting, testing, evangelism, > installation at schools, to friends, helping migration, etc.. but to > keep having my efforts still worth, I do need not to see my values (the > ones of the Free Software community), -can't find a better world sorry- > "betrayed". > OMHO, it's not a trivial problem like have a image "not so nice" but > that can be improved, is a problem that should not have happen at all at > first time. In fact I'm wondering how can foss people use Apple images, > knowing how closed and against user's freedom Apple is, and that it's > not "just hardware" but the symbol of an entire world vision that is > AGAINST our community and values? And that I find really shocking is > that they are still there after all those days, and we are discussing > here as it were a trivial problem and the only option available. > I immediately reacted in IRC, and was told that "people has been > informed of this issue", then after a while I tried to involve TDF and > after some email exchange with them I've been send here. > Here I'm told, if I understand correctly, "beauty is much more important > than FOSS values" and "you do help us", like if iMac images were the > only available / nice enough, and in any case that were the important > thing. > Seems like all our ability in web design for promotion of a Free(dom) > program is use images for a company that is the symbol of the opposite > of our values, and we find it a "good thing". > This can't be true. > So, as far as I understand, Apple symbols will stay there until a > volunteer like me, that has no graphic skill, will provide modified > pictures of that very recognizable hardware? > This again can't be true. > I'll attach here a shot of a page edited and where you can't recognize > an iMac anymore. Don't think is loosing any important visual appealing, > except if you are an Apple fan. > It took 15 minutes for me to edit, and I know NOTHING about Gimp (I just > used the colour picker and the eraser), so can't imagine the wonders a > good graphic design could have done instead, and of course this is the > most I can do. > But I want to point out loud that the correctness of our message and > position can't be ignored for *any* reason, is the only point that makes > us different, our strength depends on our credibility, and our > credibility depends on what we do. > I've two children, I tell them what is right and what is wrong, but they > believe only in what I DO myself, what I show them with my real life, > not with empty words. Can't tell them about the fundamental importance > of Free software in their lives and future, and use a proprietary > program/OS instead, this would completely undermine my message, no > matter how "good" or "right" it would be. > So all people that, like me, believe in Free Software and LibreOffice do > deserve a site that has no Apple on it, and need it *urgently*, don't > you agree? I agree with you of course and I would help the website team myself if I have not so much on my table for Libo currently, believe me. But I'm sure they have understand your message. The only thing I don't agree with you is that the Italian site is an official site. All languages that are under the LibreOffice domain are as official as the English one. Also, if you give this url http://www.libreoffice.org/default in the meantime, you won't see the offending image any more.
Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier <[email protected]> Tel:+33683901545 Membership & Certification Committee Member - Co-founder The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
